Shield, trigger mods and CCW

[FlexStrops]

I know this topic is a dead horse that has been ran over a 1,000 times but I would still love to hear your thoughts.
I have also read a bit of Massad Ayoob posts in the past.

I have been through this forum and back reading old posts and can not for the life of me decide on what to do.

As for my shield, right now its stock.
I have ordered a 10-8 black out rear sight and a ameriglo front, if I order the apex carry kit I can have it all done at once by my local gun smith, well I will do it all except the striker block.

Now on to the trigger, right now it measures at 6-6.5 pounds, I want it lighter, I would love 4.5.

My CCW instructor said to not mess with the trigger but sights and grips are okay, I didn't have a chance to tell him it would only drop by a pound.

Also IMO, If you're gonna carry a certain gun, you better know the gun in and out, none of this "its not a range gun" stuff, take it to the range every time you hit the range and learn it.

So that leads me to a apex trigger, I would like to drop in just the sear to create a 4.5lb trigger pull, at the same time I'm thinking about buying the full kit (without trigger) and going to 5.5lb and keeping it smooth.

Basically what I'm asking is there a set pound rating for safety?

I love the gun, I put around 4-500 rounds through it since I got it two weeks ago hoping it would lighten up and smooth out a bit, I have also been dry firing it a bit here and there, nothing has changed and I didn't think it would until the 1000s maybe.

Sorry for such a long post, I just joined but have surfed through for a while checking out threads.

This thread is what got me set off to all this thinking LOL
beautiful gun and those are the sights I ended ordering
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/322033-hard-chromed-shield.html

Those sights started it all.

Pic added

 

[WR Moore]

This horse has been beaten so often there's no meat left on the bones. Do a search on trigger modification/action work/trigger jobs etc.

The best investment you can make in a new gun is practice ammo. 6-6.5 lbs is an outstanding double action trigger.

 

[FlexStrops]

I agree that the trigger is not to bad, I just hope it brakes in a bit over time, if I had the right tools I would tear it down and just give it a light polish/bur treatment, basically smooth everything out a bit.

Are the 10-8 rear sights hard to put on?
I have heard they are a little larger, should I let the gunsmith know any special instructions?
One more question, if I add the apex striker block only will it remove the grittiness?
Can I use the stock spring with the apex striker block?
if so what is the difference in the springs pound rating?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions, gun mods are fairly new to me besides the basic 10/22

Ask me about knives and I got all the info LOL, guns not so much...

 

[Seanhagerty]

I put the apex kit in mine. I have got to say this thing is more accurate than my full size Beretta. Love the quick return to target and fast follow up shots.

Do the apex kit, do the sights, don't look back.

 

[DeathF.above]

Just because it's a defense weapon doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with mediocrity. Get it shooting accurately. Being confident with you ccw is very important. You can be just as safe with a 5.5 lb trigger as you can with a 6.5 lb trigger. Practice safe habits.

 

[marine6680]

Apex labels the kit as a duty carry... So the name doesn't look bad.

If it was a competition trigger kit maybe...

But only a trained person with permission to break down the pistol would know if the parts are not factory.

At most, a prosecutor would ask if the trigger felt too light and could use the pull weight as a Avenue of attack, but a lawyer will ask that the pull be measured and then site countless experts that the trigger would be safe at such and such pull weight.

I think the average accepted lowest pull on a striker pistol for defence is about 5lb...

The prosecution case, if it should ever come to that, will focus on saying the use of deadly force was not necessary, barring that they may claim you did not mean to pull the trigger, or that you went looking for trouble...

They will attempt this in various ways, but so long as you haven't made alterations to the point of having a competition light trigger, or done things to put your motivations leading up to the event into question, you should be fine with a competent lawyer.


The Apex kit will make the pull around 5.5lb and make it smoother with a clean break and if adjusted properly, reduce over travel... Over travel is more likely to affect accuracy than take up.

So it really is up to you and how gun friendly you think your local judicial system is.

 

[Rpg]

I only recall one case, from my days as a prosecutor, that involved a weapon with a custom trigger.

As juicy as we thought that hair trigger would be to a jury, it never came up:

The pistol was STOLEN, so we couldn't pin the trigger on the BG.

 

[NCavi8tor]

This horse is dead x10000!!

NC

 

[gnystrom]

My Shield came with a very heavy trigger nearly 8#. I just put in the Apex sear alone. No new trigger springs or polishing of the striker block.
The pull wt immediately came down to just under 6#. I installed Ameriglo Pro i-Dots because they allow me faster sight acquisition. Talon grips for a firmer hold, and it is now a very nice carry gun.

 

[JWH321]

A local prosecutor suggested that if you are really worried, change it out and then go to the range a lot to show that you were changing it to improve yourself. Keep the targets from before and after the changes. Post a note here to show us how the changes improved your accuracy, keep copies of the postings and responses. Then in the unlikely event that the trigger were to come up, you would have a plausible argument for your defense attorney to present.

But my friend suggested that it is not an issue that he would ever raise. YMMV.

 

[FlexStrops]

Thanks everyone.

If I got the apex trigger kit without the trigger.
Then added everything except the striker block spring (if I left that stock) what would that do?

 

[Rpg]

Make you wonder what it would be like with the additions.

 

[JLM]

I've got the same sights that you mentioned, plus the apex kit (except for the trigger) and I love it.

 

[Saudade]

You need to check with your local authority. Some prohibit modifications on cc weapons other than sights and grips.

The topic of potential litigation risk comes up often in other forums and no one has ever cited a case where someone was convicted because of a trigger mod.

 

[27Veer]

I am one of Mas Ayoob's senior instructors and I actually have him coming to my place March 7-8 to teach his new Armed Citizens class. (Have 6 seats left) gatorfarmtactical.com Any modification you make to a rescue tool that enhances its ability to allow you to use it to save innocent life is court defensible. our rule of thumb is NO trigger under 4 lbs and 5 lbs is better. I have the APEX 5.5 carry package in my Shield which I carried throughout Tucson today. I have the 4.5 in my CORE but will change to the 5.5 soon. What the APEX trigger does is to make the trigger as close to the 1911 in feel as possible. I would personally have the trigger for you carry gun done by a professional, but so many do their own work that it probably isn't a problem as long as the trigger works as designed.

 

[FlexStrops]

I have checked with my authority and still can not find anything about this, not really sure who I would contact, I have talked with my local gunsmith at Impact Guns who does excellent work and I will be having him add the apex drop in kit if I go that route.

27Veer, thank you for the info and its exactly what I was looking for.

 

[DrJCM020]

Put the apex in for sure.

 

[27Veer]

If any of you guys can do it I'm sponsoring Mas March 7-8 in Tucson

 

[97thSignalman]

Apex Duty Carry trigger kit

I used Apex Duty Carry Enhancement Kits on both my M&P9 and 9c pistols. I don't use them as carry pieces so I am primarily seeking good performance on the range. I set them up using all the APEX parts except for the heavier Apex trigger return spring which I kept original. The result is a light 3.75 lb trigger pull. Some think that would be a little low for a carry piece.

This article prompted me to try installing the heavier APEX supplied trigger return springs to see how much the trigger pull would increase. I did so yesterday and the trigger pull increased by about a pound on each pistol to 4.85 pounds.

Either way you get a smoother pull that is shorter with a crisper letoff and shorter reset than the factory set up. I guess if you want a "safer" duty/carrytrigger you should use all the parts in the kit and end up with a pull that is somewhere around five pounds. If you want a pull around 4 lbs stick with the lighter factory trigger spring when using the Apex Duty Carry kit.

I have not decided whether to leave mine at 4.85 pounds or go back to the lighter 3.75 pounds. I guess I will try them at the heavier pull weights for a while to see what I really like best.

By the way, my two kits each included a bullet nosed aluminum slave pin to aid in the reassembly of the trigger set. The first one I tried was probably .030" to short and impossible to use. It was obvious that I needed somethng longer to facillitate the assembly process. So I checked the other kit and saw that the slave pin in that kit was visibly longer. It worked perfectly and made the job quick and simple. I pitched the shorter pin so that I wouldn't try using it again.

So what trigger pull do you want? Make your choice and pick the trigger spring that suits you needs as you see them.

By the way, if your only complaint with the factory trigger pull is the gritty feeling, try using just the USB (Ultimate Striker Block) from Apex. It is really easy to change and you will be amazed at how much it changes the feel of the pull. For some, that may be all you need.

 

[Semper Praesidio]

I used Apex Duty Carry Enhancement Kits on both my M&P9 and 9c pistols.

Looking online, it appears there is one version of this package that comes with a trigger and one that does not. Which do you use?