Shield without safety?

[Kollin]

Is there a version of the Shield without the thumb safety. I like the size but have not seen one without yet. That is the only thing stopping me from buying one.

 

[Der Biermeister]

The safety is quite unobtrusive. So that begs the question -- if you really want a Shield, why not just buy one and never use the safety? At least on my gun, it is not easy to accidentally engage.

 

[MichiganScott]

And you could try looking at the S&W web site. They will show you every model currently available, all of which have a thumb safety.

 

[B3500]

I think all shields come with a safety. There are videos out that show how to defeat the safety.

I would not recommend making such modification to a carry gun in a forum, but unlike the current PC belief... you are ultimately responsible for your actions, so it's up to you to decide whether to do it or not and live with the consequences.

If you decide to pursue the idea, search youtube for "shield remove safety". It did not look very hard to do.

 

[71velle]

You could also look at the Springfield it does not have a safety. I did not want a safety either but as stated its tucked away pretty well.

 

[highaltitude]

Switch the safety off on the gun, and you'll never know it's there. In fact, I forgot about it until reading this post.. It's really not a big deal.

 

[Hunter8282]

The safety is quite unobtrusive. So that begs the question -- if you really want a Shield, why not just buy one and never use the safety? At least on my gun, it is not easy to accidentally engage.

I was hesitant as well based on my philosophy of unholster, aim, and fire, (KISS). But my Shield came with the safety OFF and I have never touched it. Doesn't bother me anymore.

 

[Rastoff]

Now that we have all the opinions out of the way...

No, there isn't a version of the Shield without a thumb safety.

 

[Kollin]

Now that we have all the opinions out of the way...

No, there isn't a version of the Shield without a thumb safety.

Thank you.



I did look at the S&W site and did not see one but I just though I'd ask if anyone had ever seen one. My friend picked up a version of the Ruger 10/22 that is not on Ruger's site so you never know.


I've had all kinds of guns with and without manual safety's and I just prefer not to have them. I already have an XDs in .45 but liked the Shield in 9. Maybe I'll just get an XDs 9.

 

[SMMAssociates]

While I'm fairly concerned about the Civil consequences of removing a manufacturer-supplied safety device, the whole M&P series is built to make removing the thumb safeties only slightly more difficult than swapping a sear. Essentially you have to remove the safety to do that, too ....

S&W will give you covers that "erase" the holes left in the grip of the other M&P's - no idea if they're doing that for the Shield.

My only problem with "just switch it off and forget about it" is that you might switch it on, somehow, and the resulting fumble could be fatal.

As a 1911 guy, I'm used to flicking off the safety during presentation, so it wouldn't be much of a problem for me (I have a 9C with a thumb safety), but the one on the Shield is rather well buried, and stiff, too.

(Just IMHO, but trying to wipe off a safety that's not there has to be far less consequential than figuring out that there really is one because the gun doesn't work.)

I expect that you could cut the thumb safety lever back (on both sides) so that the thing stays where it's put without using a tool of some kind, but I'm not sure. (I don't have a Shield yet - just three M&P's.)

Regards,

 

[Der Biermeister]

Kollin -- I guess your decision comes down to this:

Assuming that the Shield out-performs all other similar sub compacts, which of course is up for debate, but for the sake of argument let's say it does -- then do you really want to fore-go those advantages just because it has a safety that never has to be engaged? Like several of us have already explained, the safety on the Shield is quite "out of the way" and also quite stiff, so that it cannot be engaged accidentally.

I would recommend that before you make your final decision to look elsewhere - you should spend some time with the gun (maybe a friend's?) at the range. I admit that I am a biased Shield owner, but for my EDC, I wouldn't trade this gun for any other gun on the market. (Admittedly, I have modified the trigger to my liking and I also replaced the original sights.)

 

[Rastoff]

I expect that you could cut the thumb safety lever back (on both sides)

The Shield thumb safety is only on one side. Another reason I don't have a Shield.

My only problem with "just switch it off and forget about it" is that you might switch it on, somehow, and the resulting fumble could be fatal.

...the safety on the Shield is quite "out of the way" and also quite stiff, so that it cannot be engaged accidentally.

Cannot? That's taking it a little far in my book. I'm with SMMAssociates in that I'd be more concerned that it would get switched on when I didn't realize or didn't want it on.

I too am a 1911 guy so, a thumb safety is a non-issue for me. Yes, the thumb safety on the Shield is small and out of the way, but it could accidentally get switched on. That could be problematic if you never use it.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Rastoff:

Thanks for the correction - I really gotta get one of those ....

(I've been trying to save a couple bucks to get the necessaria to add .40S&W to my Dillon, and every time I get close, the wife needs something. Last week, the car needed a Shield's worth of repairs. My car, but she's afraid to drive hers for other reasons, so she had to replace a tire and a wheel.... I'd drive it that way for a year if it was up to me ....)

To agree with both of us, I really would worry about something switching that safety on for me.... The one on my 9C is very easy to swipe off (or on), and wouldn't bother me, but from what I hear, "impossible" isn't right, but "darned difficult" is. Reminds me of my old S&W "Escort" toy - "M61", I think - little bitty .22LR semi-auto. The safety lever is nearly impossible even when you want to switch it's selection. Not stiff or anything, but teensy and a little hard to find in a hurry. You can't carry that thing with the safety off.

The two M&P's that I actually carry, btw, have no thumb safeties. It's a bit disconcerting to not find them when I "present" in practice, but at least it's not going to fail to work properly. Brain goes "oops, forgot this thing didn't need that move", which is a heck of a lot safer (and quicker) than "oops, where's that fool lever?".

BTW, that's one of the downsides to an LDA gun from Para - the hammer will come back whether the safety's on or off, but it won't drop. No feedback ("yikes, that trigger's stiff") if it's on, and I think you could break something if you pulled hard enough.

("LDA" is Para's "Light Double Action". Really advertising hype, but a vestigal hammer lies against the rear of the slide unless you start squeezing the trigger. Do that, and the hammer will come back. If the thumb safety is off, it'll fire. Unless you carry on an empty chamber, the firing mechanism is cocked for you when you load the chamber, and it's impossible to avoid that, or uncock it without firing the gun, or at least dropping the magazine and cycling the round out.)

(Actually, pretty nice if you're an old wheelgun guy.)

Regards,

 

[Doug M.]

Being left handed, the risk of inadvertent application of the safety would be a large issue. I spoke to a Smith LE rep, and at that time, they were so backlogged that the issue of making a version without the thumb safety was not even a blip on the screen. It's rumored, but that rumor and enough cash will get you a cup of coffee someplace.

 

[Der Biermeister]

Cannot? That's taking it a little far in my book. I'm with SMMAssociates in that I'd be more concerned that it would get switched on when I didn't realize or didn't want it on.

Other than death and taxes, there are no absolutes in this world. So let me modify my statement to say instead of "cannot", to "infinitesimally small chance". I just spent a number of minutes trying to engage the safety accidentally and failed miserably. No amount of hard rubbing against jeans or rough clothing or belts, etc., would do it. The safety is so stiff, AND RECESSED, that you have to purposely (not an accidental brush) push hard with your thumb to engage it. Other than that, the only way I was able to do it, was to position the safety on a sharp corner of a hard wood table and push down with some effort. I am confident enough of my findings that I challenge anyone with a Shield to find an easier way*** for accidental engagement.

Kudos to S&W for the recessed design of this safety.

*** I guess with anything else, there could be some variations out there as to stiffness of the Shield safetys. If it turns out that some are very loose, then I will concede that my position is not to be listened to.

 

[Rastoff]

I concede. I don't own a Shield and have only handled a few. Yes, the safety is hard even when you are trying to operate it.

I only said what I said to offer a counter point. In the past, just about every time I thought something couldn't be done, it happened. So, I'm just sparking the thought. If I didn't ever want the safety to be engaged, I'd remove it.

I guess I just over think stuff like this. Kinda like doing a chamber check after racking the slide. I always do it. Some don't ever do it. Nothing wrong with either way; just a preference.

 

[shardy53]

I just put a small piece of shrink wrap tape on mine to cover the lever. Now there is no chance of accidental engagement. The tape was blue and I used a marker to color it black and it is not noticeable at all. Problem solved!

 

[Der Biermeister]

I just put a small piece of shrink wrap tape on mine to cover the lever. Now there is no chance of accidental engagement. The tape was blue and I used a marker to color it black and it is not noticeable at all. Problem solved!

That's an interesting solution but I am having a hard time envisioning this. Is this tape the kind that has to be heated up to shrink?
Perhaps a picture would really help describe -- thanks

 

[shardy53]

That's an interesting solution but I am having a hard time envisioning this. Is this tape the kind that has to be heated up to shrink?
Perhaps a picture would really help describe -- thanks

No it doesn't Shrink or need heat. It is a very high quality plastic tape that is used to tape shrink wrap to boats or to mend holes in shrink wrap. If and when you do remove it, the glue does not stay on the surface of the glass, plastic, or fiberglass and make a mess. But it does adhere to the surface and is strong. Just cut a piece the width of the safety, then tape it in the down position and forget about it. It beats the hell out of not buying these great pistols because the safety is there.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Biermeister:

S&W's response may be accurate, but if the safety is that stiff, what good is it?

The EC needed to not include the safety lever would be trivial, but the change needed to the manuals and the plastic "frame" could get expensive. Little plugs for the frame would be cheap enough, but you can still drop a pile of money on the necessary molds. Changing the docs to add "if present" to the thumb safety instructions could also get into money.

I once asked an IBM salesman (and good friend before they shipped him to Atlanta) about a very simple change to the System/34's operating system or RPGII programming language. Can't recall which one. He explained that the actual software change would have to be distributed to about a million users, some who might not be qualified to install it, and probably a dozen documents per installation would have to be changed, too. While they might actually do it someday, it would have to wait for a major revision where the cost could be distributed over a bunch of changes.

Sunk in eventually ....

Another time, a translation table was shipped with a bad character. Made a mess out of some of my stuff. The local IBM guy who was in charge of fixing such things just didn't have time, so I fixed it. He got upset .... ("Trying to take my job?")

(A "translation table" is just a list of "if you see '42' print an '@'" sorts of things. Mucking with it required some very hairy software that everybody had, but we were all told to "ignore it". IBM got into it with the government at some point, and had to ship a whole bunch of diagnostic software and documentation that we were supposed to hide for the repair guy.)

BTW, changing the mold that makes the frame would probably require a new mold for that version. $50,000 and up....

The tape's not a bad idea .... Betcha we could con S&W into shipping some of that if you asked for it....

Regards,

 

[Der Biermeister]

The safety had no bearing whatsoever on my purchase of the Shield. As with my other guns, had the gun been designed without one, I still would have purchased it.

I have been training myself to engage the safety whenever I am handling the weapon or it is outside of a holster. Likewise, I have trained myself to disengage it whenever the gun goes into a holster. My reasoning is this .... the only time the weapon will be unholstered while carrying is if I get into a SD situation.

Mental training -- no different than what I practice when driving and pulling out into traffic -- Look TWICE in both directions. I bet I haven't forgotten that in my 55 years of driving.

 

[NCW Ray]

Those that say "it cannot be engaged accidentally" or "there no chance of accidental engagement", etc, obviously have never run into that infamous guy called "Murphy"...of Murphy's Law fame...I have and he's bit me in the keester more than once!

I've never owned a pistol with a manual safety, but I will be buying a Shield when the elusive dollar gods favor me and I WILL TRAIN MYSELF TO USE IT EVEN IF I DECIDE TO CARRY IT IN THE DISENGAGED MODE. I would rather have completed a wasted thumb swipe than not done the thumb swipe and needed it.

 

[red dragon]

I'm a lefty and have carried the shield everyday for over a year now.never use the safety and it has never accidentally engaged.its very comfortable,accurate and reliable(over 1200rds no malfunctions).by far my favorite carry gun.not buying a gun because of a safety seems silly to me.most people would just practice a little more.

 

[Gunsnwater]

The safety had no bearing whatsoever on my purchase of the Shield. As with my other guns, had the gun been designed without one, I still would have purchased it.

I have been training myself to engage the safety whenever I am handling the weapon or it is outside of a holster. Likewise, I have trained myself to disengage it whenever the gun goes into a holster. My reasoning is this .... the only time the weapon will be unholstered while carrying is if I get into a SD situation.

Mental training -- no different than what I practice when driving and pulling out into traffic -- Look TWICE in both directions. I bet I haven't forgotten that in my 55 years of driving.

I would suggest getting in the habit of clearing every gun you pick up every time you pick it up even if it is only one second after putting it down.