Shiloh Sharps

My understanding at the time (around the time I graduated high school in 1983) was that the two companies worked in partnership with each other but had a falling out over creative differences. It resulted in a lawsuit where one of the businesses got the rights to the “Shiloh Sharps” name and the other got the rights to use the “C. Sharps” name.

Since I was fuzzy on the details after 40 ish years I looked over on the Shiloh rifle site and found this:

“My wife and I were insiders in the early days having worked for C. Sharps Arms and with Shiloh. C. Sharps and Shiloh Sharps have always been two separate companies. Originally Wolfgang Droege, owner of Drovel Tool Mfg. Co. began making Sharps replicas in Farmingdale, NY. Early guns are marked Shiloh Products then became the Shiloh Sharps.

When Wolfgang met John Schoffstall at a Shot Show they began to develop a relationship where Schoffstall, who owned a gun shop in Washington state, was selling Shiloh rifles among other products.

In 1979, I was one of two gunsmiths hired to work at Farmingdale by John Schoffstall under Wolfgang Droege to assist in any manner we could. Then us two were hired by Schoffstall to build custom ordered rifles based on Shiloh Sharps barreled actions and this was done under the name C. Sharps Arms but the guns were not marked C. Sharps in any manner. Around this time C. Sharps Arms, owned by Schoffstall, became the distributor west of the Mississippi while Shiloh Sharps owned by Droege was the east of the Mississippi distributor.

Early in 1981 the C. Sharps Arms Co. moved from Washington to Big Timber, MT and a few years later Shiloh Sharps moved to Big Timber and occupied a new building along with C. Sharps Arms still as separate companies. Also around this time is when Schoffstall got Wolfgang to start marking the barrels with C. Sharps, but the guns were always Shiloh Sharps made by Shiloh and C. Sharps Arms became the sole distributor and still the custom shop. The “Old Reliable" marking was trade marked by Schoffstall and was allowed to be stamped on the barrels.

By 1984 the two companies were having disagreements. We left C. Sharps Arms in late 1984. Lawsuits started shortly after and at the end of it Droege built his own building and moved into it and years later he sold the business to the Bryan's.”

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They both make really good black powder rifles, just with a few differences.

Shiloh Sharps prides itself on things like full parts compatibility with the original Christen Sharps owned Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Company rifles, even though they had their share of flaws such as a firing pin that was prone to breakage.

C. Sharps has been a bit more interested in updating the design where needed internally, but at the same time has kept the stock proportions true to the old Christen Sharps design.

Shiloh Sharp also uses a lost wax investment cast process with 4140 steel for the receivers, where my understanding is that C. Sharps makes them from forged billets.

C. Sharps also uses Green Mountain and Badger barrels that are cut rifled, while Shiloh Sharps prefers to make its own button rifled barrels.

Before they split Shiloh Sharps rifles had a long free bore and as I recall that was the case until the Bryan family bought out Droge (1990 IIRC). At or not long after that point they started free boring the rifle based on the customers intended load and bullet.

It’s one of the reasons my .45-70 loads using a 480 gr Lyman 457658 bullet end up seated a bit shallow in the case. I suspect the chamber was originally free bored for the longer Lyman 457132 535 gr Postell bullet that most BPCR shooters were using back in the day.

I don’t mind the shallow seating though as it lets me pack in 82 grs (weight not volume) of FFg using a 36” drop tube with a card wad and 3/32” of compression. Seating it closer to the lands improved the accuracy (poor accuracy was the major complaint about the Lyman 480 gr and similar Saeco 645 “Schmittzer” bullets. Needing more powder to fill the space in the case just added a bit more velocity. If I were ordering a rifle today, I’d send them one, or the measurements from one for chambering purposes. (I’d probably also order a .45-90 instead).

Shiloh Sharps made serious money following the Quigley Down Under movie and I think their waiting period is still over a year. In the late 1990s it was a 4-5 year wait and new rifles in hand were selling for 2-3 times their actual price.

I bought my Shiloh Sharps #1 Sporter more than thirty years ago, but haven't shot it in quite a while. It's accurate with many loads and bullets, including the SAECO #645. According to my notes, this bullet shot well with IMR4198 powder, but it weighed 482 grs.

As I recall, Redding/SAECO had recently introduced this design and had it listed in their new catalog available at a SHOT Show years ago. I ordered the 2-cavity mould and went to work. I think the only reason I stopped shooting it was because of the significantly increased recoil, and that was with loads that were far from heavy. I much prefer the Lyman 420 gr. #457193 or the 330 gr. hollow point #457122.
 
I have 2 Shiloh, 2 Pedersoli and 1 C. Sharps, my favorite is the C. Sharps for quality, 2 Shiloh are a close second then the 2 Pedersoli, the Pedersoli are very, very accurate!w
 
I like that both C Sharps and the Shiloh Sharps will sell scrap pieces of wood. Great figure for knife and slab side pistol blanks.
The Fort has been on my must stop list going east for about 12 years now. They used to sell used guns but the market has not been a good place for buying used guns cheap enough for retail for a few years. They usually have a decent section of glass, new and used.
 
I have 2 Shiloh, 2 Pedersoli and 1 C. Sharps, my favorite is the C. Sharps for quality, 2 Shiloh are a close second then the 2 Pedersoli, the Pedersoli are very, very accurate!w

I bought an Italian Quigley model for $800 in the store back when a comparable C.Sharps or Shiloh Sharps was selling for about $3500 with a projected 4 year wait. It made sense at that point to buy an Italian Sharps sitting on the shelf in the store just to have it to shoot for the next four years.

Today, the price gap has closed a lot, with about $2500 for a Pedersoli Down Under model plus about $500 for a long range MVA Soule sight ($3,000 total), while a comparable Shiloh Sharps will cost you a little over $4300.

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My Pedersoli shot just fine with solid 1 MOA groups - but the Pedersoli Soule sight was a peace-o-carp. You could make it work, provided you kept and Allen wrench handy, but it was slow and cumbersome to adjust.

Today with very nice Soule sights available from MVA in the $450-$500 range there are much better options.
 
My Pedersoli shot just fine with solid 1 MOA groups - but the Pedersoli Soule sight was a peace-o-carp. You could make it work, provided you kept and Allen wrench handy, but it was slow and cumbersome to adjust.

Today with very nice Soule sights available from MVA in the $450-$500 range there are much better options.

In the early 80's I bought a FIE import 1874 Sharp's that ran about $500 and their Soul Sight was $105 and was very close to worthless! The windage adjustment and the pivot were the same piece. Every time you folded the sight, you messed up your windage!

I never could get that gun to group. One of the problems was my fault. I used wheel weights for bullet alloy and 3031 for powder! The next owner used soft lead and Goex FFg Black Powder and got 2" groups at 50 yards.

Not only was that not Shiloh or C. Sharps accuracy, but I've also had friends with the H&R Trapdoor Springfields from around 1976, in Rifle and Officers models (below Serial Number 5000) that shot 1 MOA.

Ivan
 
What are used fairly basic (no extra fancy wood, no expensive sights, etc.) Shiloh Sharps selling for these days?

Shiloh's gun room is empty of New or used ready to sell 1874's. The least they list for order is $2054.

I bought mine about 12 years ago. The Cash price was $2000 with MVA Sights and some other extras, but I traded into it. To order it new would be $3000-3400 depending on which high grade wood I have.

Ivan
 
What are used fairly basic (no extra fancy wood, no expensive sights, etc.) Shiloh Sharps selling for these days?

I just took delivery on a No. 3 Sporter in 50-90. Standard in every way, I wanted something like you would buy in a hardware store in 1874. Total price was $2788. I’ve seen very few used Shilohs of any model in any condition sell under $3000 in the last couple of years. I’d estimate the average for a nice, not really fancy, rifle to be about $3000-$3500. The sky’s the limit if you want fancy. I know of a used presentation grade 16# 45-90 wagon gun for sale right now at $6500 and it is a true work of art.
 
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