Possible, but if +P+ ammo was LEO why would S&W build a +P+ rated J frame and mark it as such, if it wasn't aimed at the police market?
Shooting .38 +P Ammo in a .38
- Thread starter Hammergun
- Start date
To my knowledge S&W never built a +P+ J frame revolver, when the load first came out in the 1970's, maybe in the 90's with the heavier "magnum frame" ?
The LEO +P+ load was used out of a K frame but most were not issued +P or +P+ ammo, due to the thought of "Over kill" that the public might toss at the users.
Standard 38 special loads were usually the issued ammo unless there was a "Special need" for improved ammo for the 38 special.
Winchester to my knowledge , was the only company to mark the 38 case with a +P+ marking, while the others only had +P stamped on the cases.
With my new 2 day old PC, I lost my pictures and data on my 38 & 9mm, so I can't back this up right now.
A "Doctor" is coming and hopefully I will get my data back, after surgery.
later.
Here are photos of my 38 special 640 J frame which I bought new I think in 1991 before the 357 longer frame models came out. The serial number has a prefix CEN.
It's hard to see in the photos, but it's laser etched Tested for +P+
UPDATE;
I just ran across this listing on the net for a S&W 640. Their photos are better than mine and show the +P+ markings. Interesting!
Smith & Wesson S&W Model 640, .38 Special +P+ Stainless 1 7/8" Dao Double Action Only Centennial Style Revolver .38 Special For Sale at GunAuction.com - 14549966
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Just to add an exclamation point to my diatribe of SAAMI, industry standards and their value...
SAAMI does not recognize .38 Special+P+
That means it truly has no standard.
The .460 S&W Magnum has a SAAMI max pressure of 60,000 psi. But as .38 Special +P+ has -NO- standard, it would be accurate to say that .38 Special +P+ ammo might be a box of ammo where each cartridge has a .452" bullet of 300 grains weight loaded to 60,000 psi.
(It is NOT) And yes, this sounds absolutely preposterous. In fact, it is completely preposterous and worse yet, I made it up entirely out of thin air.
I did only to demonstrate that if it isn't built to an industry standard, they could literally make a n y t h i n g.
Have you ever heard of .the .483 Hyper T-Rex? It's unlikely that you have ever heard of it because I made that up right now. But if you find a box of that ammo, you really don't know what's going on inside it, because it isn't a SAAMI recognized cartridge.
.483 Hyper T-Rex
.380 Auto+P by Buffalo Bore
.38 Special +P+
None of these are built to an industry recognized standard.
Beware.
SAAMI does not recognize .38 Special+P+
That means it truly has no standard.
The .460 S&W Magnum has a SAAMI max pressure of 60,000 psi. But as .38 Special +P+ has -NO- standard, it would be accurate to say that .38 Special +P+ ammo might be a box of ammo where each cartridge has a .452" bullet of 300 grains weight loaded to 60,000 psi.
(It is NOT) And yes, this sounds absolutely preposterous. In fact, it is completely preposterous and worse yet, I made it up entirely out of thin air.
I did only to demonstrate that if it isn't built to an industry standard, they could literally make a n y t h i n g.
Have you ever heard of .the .483 Hyper T-Rex? It's unlikely that you have ever heard of it because I made that up right now. But if you find a box of that ammo, you really don't know what's going on inside it, because it isn't a SAAMI recognized cartridge.
.483 Hyper T-Rex
.380 Auto+P by Buffalo Bore
.38 Special +P+
None of these are built to an industry recognized standard.
Beware.
I agree with Stevens.
I always wondered how S&W could pressure test a revolver for a cartridge that doesn't have a pressure rating. (see post 23)
I suspect that the "Tested for +P+" marking disappeared shortly after the Co. lawyers got wind of it.
I have never seen another 640 so marked.
I always wondered how S&W could pressure test a revolver for a cartridge that doesn't have a pressure rating. (see post 23)
I suspect that the "Tested for +P+" marking disappeared shortly after the Co. lawyers got wind of it.
I have never seen another 640 so marked.
I have an early-70s model 36 with 3" barrel that was my mother's ( so I really don't want to change damaging it). Given the discussion here, I assume I should avoid using +P round. Unfortunately I recently ordered a box of Winchester .38 Spec that turned out to be +P when it arrived. That was a few months back, so maybe I can trade it for two boxes of standard now. ��
Oscar Zulu
Member
Milton,
you will be fine using that ammunition in a mid seventies model 36. Fifty rounds through it won't hurt anything but your hand and wallet. The 36 is a tough little beast without the forcing cone issue of the K frame.
But in these times, trading it for twice the amount of standard pressure loads would be a wise move!
OZ
you will be fine using that ammunition in a mid seventies model 36. Fifty rounds through it won't hurt anything but your hand and wallet. The 36 is a tough little beast without the forcing cone issue of the K frame.
But in these times, trading it for twice the amount of standard pressure loads would be a wise move!
OZ
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As mentioned, the standard 38 special load is around 17,000 PSI.
The +P load has higher pressures that can go up to around 20,000 PSI.
I can get a 110 gr JHP out of my "J" frame snubnose with Unique powder up to a +P rating but for limited use, it can be used and I
can even get a 2" +P load with Green Dot with a lead 158 Gr bullet, so I don't think the +P speed with the right powder has that much pressure.
A +P+ load is a totally different animal and there is a reason that SAAMI does not list it for the 38 special revolver.
It is really a "Wildcat " or specialty loading for LE personnel using a heavy "K" frame weapon that can work with the high pressures.
As with the 9mm pistol, long use will work loose the weapon and end it's shooting life a lot quicker. One reason it should not be shot unless needed.
PC up running again;
Super Vel came out in 1965
158gr FBI came out in 1972
110 Treasery load out in 1972
All ammo boxs had high pressure warnings on them and most stated for LE only.
Some where I remember an RC20 rating needed on a revolver to cope with the high pressures.
Carry on.
The +P load has higher pressures that can go up to around 20,000 PSI.
I can get a 110 gr JHP out of my "J" frame snubnose with Unique powder up to a +P rating but for limited use, it can be used and I
can even get a 2" +P load with Green Dot with a lead 158 Gr bullet, so I don't think the +P speed with the right powder has that much pressure.
A +P+ load is a totally different animal and there is a reason that SAAMI does not list it for the 38 special revolver.
It is really a "Wildcat " or specialty loading for LE personnel using a heavy "K" frame weapon that can work with the high pressures.
As with the 9mm pistol, long use will work loose the weapon and end it's shooting life a lot quicker. One reason it should not be shot unless needed.
PC up running again;
Super Vel came out in 1965
158gr FBI came out in 1972
110 Treasery load out in 1972
All ammo boxs had high pressure warnings on them and most stated for LE only.
Some where I remember an RC20 rating needed on a revolver to cope with the high pressures.
Carry on.
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What standard pressure .38 Special defense loads do you recommend that have anywhere near both the extensive real-world and lab testing results of +P rounds like the "FBI" load or Gold Dot Short Barrel?
Most "Standard ammo" will work "IF" you are shooting it out of a 4" barrel.
Shooting SD ammo out of a 1 7/8" barrel 38 special is a whole new ball game !!
Feel Lucky ?
For those compact revolvers, ammo designed specifically for short barreled handguns work best. These loads are far more likely to expand at lower velocities.Most "Standard ammo" will work "IF" you are shooting it out of a 4" barrel.
Shooting SD ammo out of a 1 7/8" barrel 38 special is a whole new ball game !!
Feel Lucky ?
Sitting here with my vintage Speer #8 reloading manual, where a snubby load of 8 grains of SR4756 and 158 swc shows 1023fps. Print date 1970.
As others have mentioned, loads of the past were WARM.
That being said, I prefer to feed my snubbies 148 WC loads.
Will they digest modern +p loads without issue?
Your hand will hurt before your gun gets tired.
As others have mentioned, loads of the past were WARM.
That being said, I prefer to feed my snubbies 148 WC loads.
Will they digest modern +p loads without issue?
Your hand will hurt before your gun gets tired.
