Shooting .44Mag/.44Sol In Same Gun??

[LoboGunLeather]

Most likely a combination of things coming together to cause this difficulty. Powder charge not providing clean combustion. Bullet type or composition. Bullet lubricant (if cast or swaged). Manufacturing tolerances of the revolver being on the tighter end of the allowable range. Perhaps even excessive oil in the chambers capturing powder residue (chambers need to be clean and dry to function properly).

I have fired tens of thousands of .38 Special cast bullet loads in my old Model 19 .357 revolver. Not unusual to experience a "crud ring" in the chambers that might prevent chambering a .357 cartridge. Routine cleaning will take care of it (I like a dry bronze brush as the first step which will generally dislodge just about any carbon or lead deposits).

I own several .44 Magnum revolvers, and I shoot .44 Specials just about exclusively (it has been at least 10 years since I fired a .44 Magnum cartridge). If I ever choose to load magnums again I will certainly make sure they chamber easily before I go hunting (which is the only real use for magnum ammo, in my opinion).

Overall, a pretty normal event that might seem to be more of an issue than it really is.

 

[Rule3]

No luck so far this morning with all that I've tried. Off to find some Marvel Mystery Oil. But, I have arrived at the definitive solution if I want to continue loading .44spl. Ruger is still making a beautiful .44spl.

There are no magic solvents that actually dissolve or remove LEAD. Carbon yes but not LEAD other than a acid mixture that I do not advise using.

Here is a Helpful hint from Heloise:

Take a piece of 44 MAG brass and slightly flare it so it just barely fits in the cylinders. Put some solvent (any kind) in the cylinders and then lightly tap the brass into each cylinder it will scrape out excess lead/carbon. Then follow up with a oversized bore brush (no, not a 44 cal brush that fits the bore!) bigger!

If you buy Chore Boy scrubbers take a magnet and be sure you get copper ,not colored steel.

Take two aspirin and call me later,

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

My old Ruger Blackhawk 44mag used to digest both with no problem. I
finally sold the Ruger as I was shooting mostly 44 specials. Sort of wish
I had kept the 44mag but I didn't. Probably needed a few $. That was
the only 44 mag I have ever owned but I found the 44 special did every-
thing I needed.

 

[castleadslinger]

No luck so far this morning with all that I've tried. Off to find some Marvel Mystery Oil. But, I have arrived at the definitive solution if I want to continue loading .44spl. Ruger is still making a beautiful .44spl.

There is no powder that won't burn clean to stop foaling. Every powder that is made will cause fouling in the cylinder chamber of your revolver. Look at the face of the cylinder that faces the forcing cone, only after a few shots, it's dirty and the same will happen inside of the chamber.

Consider shooting the long cartridge cases first and then the next length to minimize/reduce the issue at hand.

But then again, why must we be limit or controlled.

I was at one time in the same rut you are experiencing right now. I did what others are suggesting and used a copper chore boy to clean each cylinder chamber. Takes some time but will get the job done.

I even took a 44 mag cartridge case and modified it so that I could scrub the cylinder while out at the range. It worked well on powder residue but not so much on a crud ring inside of the cylinder chamber.

Solvents and a chore boy just took way to long to get the job done in a timely manner.

I talked to a tool and die friend at work and we settled on machining a precision tool for cleaning the crud ring. I had one made for 357 Mag and 44 Mag. This tool takes less than 5 seconds per cylinder chamber to use. I shoot several length cartridge cases in my 357 Mag and 44 Mag revolvers and these tools has made my shooting more enjoyable.

Since I've had these tools made. I haven't even used a copper chore boy and any solvents to clean my cylinder chambers (not the whole revolver, just the chamber cylinders). All I use when I'm done shooting, is Mothers Mag polish to clean the cylinder chambers on all of my revolvers. The rest of the revolver, just a normal cleaning (just to clarify).

Just a reminder if you have a tool made. Each cylinder has a index ramp from the cylinder chamber to the throat. Bevel the end of the tool as to keep the tool from damaging the index ramp.

 

[dwpmusic]

Hmmm, well, not giving up but I must say I am temporarily stumped. Got to be someone better than me and I know there are many. I've done all I can to clean the bore/cylinders of this gun and I still can't get it to accept my .44Mag reloads. Even tried the Marvel Mystery Oil and I must say that the patches did come out dirty so I know it was doing something. But my rounds continued to not seat in the cylinder enough to close it. Let's see what somebody who does it for a living has to say.

So, just to make things interesting I said, why not just try this same drill out on my .357s/.38s (of which I have a few) and see if one of these will do it. I got some of my .38 and .357 reloads out and some Hornady 158gr XTP out. Everything was seating fine until I got to my 27-2 and only the Hornady rounds would seat correctly. My .357 reloads would not. Interesting. So I put the caliper to all of the and came up with a Max COAL of 1.579 for my reloads and 1.550 for the Hornady. So, somewhere in that .029 difference must be the magical spot. So, I suppose I need to take the 27 with me to the doctor also.

To bore you more. I am not a well experienced reloader. I've been at it for about six years but many volumes could be written about what I don't know. It is fun and I enjoy it but I don't know the tricks of the trade as most of you do. I value the collective knowledge that this group offers and I appreciate the input. I have learned a lot and obviously have "a ways to go". Thanks to all who offer their assistance.

One last question. Straight up. Is Winchester231/HP38 considered a "dirty powder". I have used it for everything I reload and only now am I hearing that it is.

 

[dwpmusic]

There is no powder that won't burn clean to stop foaling. Every powder that is made will cause fouling in the cylinder chamber of your revolver. Look at the face of the cylinder that faces the forcing cone, only after a few shots, it's dirty and the same will happen inside of the chamber.

Consider shooting the long cartridge cases first and then the next length to minimize/reduce the issue at hand.

But then again, why must we be limit or controlled.

I was at one time in the same rut you are experiencing right now. I did what others are suggesting and used a copper chore boy to clean each cylinder chamber. Takes some time but will get the job done.

I even took a 44 mag cartridge case and modified it so that I could scrub the cylinder while out at the range. It worked well on powder residue but not so much on a crud ring inside of the cylinder chamber.

Solvents and a chore boy just took way to long to get the job done in a timely manner.

I talked to a tool and die friend at work and we settled on machining a precision tool for cleaning the crud ring. I had one made for 357 Mag and 44 Mag. This tool takes less than 5 seconds per cylinder chamber to use. I shoot several length cartridge cases in my 357 Mag and 44 Mag revolvers and these tools has made my shooting more enjoyable.

Since I've had these tools made. I haven't even used a copper chore boy and any solvents to clean my cylinder chambers (not the whole revolver, just the chamber cylinders). All I use when I'm done shooting, is Mothers Mag polish to clean the cylinder chambers on all of my revolvers. The rest of the revolver, just a normal cleaning (just to clarify).

Just a reminder if you have a tool made. Each cylinder has a index ramp from the cylinder chamber to the throat. Bevel the end of the tool as to keep the tool from damaging the index ramp.

Just reading your post right after I wrote my last one. Now, yours is a definite, "wish I had a tool like he's got". You should patten that. It would sell.

So, that notwithstanding. I don't plan on fighting this battle again anytime soon. I understand it must not be a really unique problem but it's just one I'd never experienced. One thing that continues to puzzle me is the limited number of rounds that has been through this gun. It is a 629-4 and in pristine condition. I had never owned a .44 Mag and wanted one. After I got it I probably have only put no more than a few hundred rounds through it and put it back in the safe. My concentration has been on .357/.38, .45ACP and 9mm. I didn't even have dies to reload .44. So, I got to thinking, if you're going to just leave the .44 in the safe and not shoot it, you might as well sell it. Couldn't do it. So enter my involvement with reloading for it and I'm glad I'm doing it. I just don't think there has been enough rounds put through this gun by everyone who's owned it to cause this. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Just another day in the life and I'm interested in
what someone else has to say after eyeballing it.

Your tool is a very interesting idea and I'm sure it works great. Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[castleadslinger]

One last question. Straight up. Is Winchester231/HP38 considered a "dirty powder". I have used it for everything I reload and only now am I hearing that it is.

Not any dirtier than the rest of the powders being produced. The key is, put enough powder in the cartridge case to seal the casing in the chamber. Blow-by will really make the casings dirty if the cartridge case does not seal in the chamber.

As a side note, I like W231/HP38. I have 3 jugs of it on hand. Not 3 bottles, but 3 jugs (bottle = 1 lb, jug = 8 lbs).

 

[Snapping Twig]

Take a magnum case, slightly flare the mouth, use a deburring tool to sharpen it, use to remove carbon.

Done.

BTW, I really like the moniker 44SOL. LOL! We all know what SOL means, and it's applicable here. Be bad luck to catch a 44Spl indeed. You'd be SOL!

 

[DWalt]

"There are no magic solvents that actually dissolve or remove LEAD."

There is. It's called Mercury. Tough to find but I keep a bottle around for occasional use. Just need to be careful to not spill any.

I have never had a problem in firing .44 Special and .44 Mag interchangeably in both my M29 and my Ruger Super Blackhawk.

 

[keith44spl]

Sounds like it's time for the ol' Lewis lead remover.


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[castleadslinger]

Just reading your post right after I wrote my last one. Now, yours is a definite, "wish I had a tool like he's got". You should patten that. It would sell.

I really like the concept but I'm not sure many would buy into it. Most would shun away when seeing a tool being inserted into the cylinder chamber. Seeing or experiencing it first hand and having used it several times over. It works really well at removing the crud ring from the cylinder. I'm just surprised a well known company hasn't came up one yet. But then again, there would have to be a large demand for such an item.

So, that notwithstanding. I don't plan on fighting this battle again anytime soon. I understand it must not be a really unique problem but it's just one I'd never experienced. One thing that continues to puzzle me is the limited number of rounds that has been through this gun. It is a 629-4 and in pristine condition. I had never owned a .44 Mag and wanted one. After I got it I probably have only put no more than a few hundred rounds through it and put it back in the safe. My concentration has been on .357/.38, .45ACP and 9mm. I didn't even have dies to reload .44. So, I got to thinking, if you're going to just leave the .44 in the safe and not shoot it, you might as well sell it. Couldn't do it. So enter my involvement with reloading for it and I'm glad I'm doing it. I just don't think there has been enough rounds put through this gun by everyone who's owned it to cause this. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Just another day in the life and I'm interested in
what someone else has to say after eyeballing it.

We all had to start somewhere. In time, you will learn just how enjoyable a 44 actually is and it's diversatility. I could throw some salt in your wound and tell you that your 44 Mag can shoot 44 Russian and how the 44 Russian can make your 44 Mag feel like your shooting a 45 acp revolver. Same thing goes for 357 Mag. It can shoot the 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt as well. How about some mud in your eye...lol. Then there are 357 Mag and 44 Mag duplex loads that can be shot as well. Like I said....diversatility.

Your tool is a very interesting idea and I'm sure it works great. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Rant all you want. Sometimes, that's how others learn (including myself). One of my favorite quotes is "Failure is the foundation for success".

 

[buck460XVR]

The easiest solution(once you get the chambers clean) is just to load your .44 mag brass to .44 special levels. What I found with my .460 was, that even when .460 ammo would chamber after shooting .45 Colt, the crud left behind would cause higher chamber pressure and also lead to sticky extraction. Loading down my .460 brass to .45 Colt levels for reduced loads eliminated all of it.

 

[ridgewalker]

Get your reading glasses on and look under the ejection star. Clean any crud that gets deposited under there.

 

[Nightowl]

Hornady brass is shorter than most manufacturers brass, in order to make the overall length of their LeverEvolution type bullets. Thats why it will chamber and your loads do not.

For some reason, it seems like you have some really difficult stuff to clean, so the oversize bronze brush chucked into a 1/4 inch drill sounds like the way to go. Do one chamber a lot then check for chambering. Magnum brass in a tenth of an inch longer than Special brass. Work until it chambers, then move on to the next. It might take awhile.

 

[oink]

I was just struggling with the lead removal the other day myself. It brought back memories of academy and earlier practice and qualifications. Later qualifications and Dept sanctioned practice usually used jacketed rounds. When I started casting and reloading I didn't get the leading and I think that was mainly due to the lube I used. It was called Tamarik or Tamarax or something. Shooting made a mess but it pretty much wiped off with little lead requiring scrubbing. I don't really feel like casting bullets anymore which is why i bought commercially cast bullets. They came with hard wax lube and that stuff just doesn't get it. It's back to the old lead cleaning days.

I still use Breakfree to clean and good bronze brushes. I'd still use my old Lewis Lead Remover but I need screens etc. The bronze Chore Boy wrapped around a worn bore brush helps. Also very helpful is Neverdull similarly wrapped around a worn brush is also very helpful. It should be wrapped so it's a tight fit in the cylinder chambers. Don't push it all of the way through as you don't want to resize it. Just keep jabbing it up against the ring. Another aid that works amazingly well is the Miracle Cloth. [ame]https://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Cloth-Purpose-Metal-Cleaning/dp/B000C0B3E0[/ame] Cut into patches for a tight fit they are great for removing lead and fouling and can be used even when black from use. Just don't get them anywhere near a blued gun. They're very effective at removing bluing.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Hornady brass is shorter than most manufacturers brass, in order to make the overall length of their LeverEvolution type bullets.

Only the factory brass which was loaded with their 140gr FTX bullets are shorter (.050"), or brass someone modified to load them in. Regular factory Hornady brass is the normal length.

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[Joe4d]

You need to measure the chamber throats,, Bet they are in the .429 area and those oregon trail bullets you are using are .431.

 

[sw282]

l had the same trouble after l shot some 45 Colts in my 460S&W.

Finally ended up wrapping a piece of #1200 grit crocus cloth around a

3/8'' dowel rod soaked w/kroil. Spun it SLOWLY w/my cordless DeWalt...

No more problem.

 

[Rule3]

"There are no magic solvents that actually dissolve or remove LEAD."

There is. It's called Mercury. Tough to find but I keep a bottle around for occasional use. Just need to be careful to not spill any.

I have never had a problem in firing .44 Special and .44 Mag interchangeably in both my M29 and my Ruger Super Blackhawk.

Mercury is not sold as a "solvent" at the gun counter. A acid mixture also works. Neither is common or recommended.

 

[castleadslinger]

Sounds like it's time for the ol' Lewis lead remover..

I agree about it's time for an ol' Lewis Lead Remover. There not cheap, but in my opinion, worth every penny. They will clean both the barrel and the cylinder chambers. Buy one kit and it will do 9mm, 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Buy one kit and it will do the 45acp, 44 Special and 44 Magnum.

516-100-045WB Lead Remover Kit, .45 (will do both 45 acp and 44 mag)
Lead Remover Kit, .45 : BROWNELLS LEWIS LEAD REMOVER | Brownells

516-150-038WB Caliber Adapter Kit, 9mm/.38
Caliber Adapter Kit, 9mm/.38 : BROWNELLS LEWIS LEAD REMOVER | Brownells