Bajadoc
US Veteran
Keep your rifle close.
Shooting a Model 29 4"
- Thread starter JimWest
- Start date
Not many people discussing firearm selection for bear, especially the great bears like the Browns, Grizzlies, and Polar have a clear understanding of bear anatomy and bone structure. Those are the two issues that make bear unique in the dangerous animal category making them potentially impervious to various calibers and bullets that are so effective with other dangerous animals.
A charging bear offers very few shot placement opportunities because of the structure of their heads and the heavy bone and muscle mass of their chest and back areas. Stop by your taxidermists shop sometime when he's skinning out a large adult black bear and you'll see its upper body resembles the "Incredible Hulks" when he's angry! I've never seen a great bear skinned but I can imagine it's amazing!
A side head shot or a standing chest shot offers no problem for many calibers to penetrate to vital areas. But in those typical hunting situations you wouldn't likely have a charging animal. We're talking about a true charging situation where the animal can be on us in seconds and those common hunting shot placements aren't available.
The thick and angular shape of a bears skull is perfect for bullet deflection as pictured below… This is the skull of a huge black bear.
The great bear skulls are significantly larger and thicker. We have very few head-on shot placement opportunities for one shot kills that will stop these monsters…. IMO, they are shot placements directly on the nose or in an eye socket that will drive splintered bone into its brain, otherwise we risk a deflected shot. Try that placement feat with adrenalin pumpin' in a time frame that could be two or three seconds…..
I've shot several large black bear with .41 and .44 mags. One while elk hunting, I had mistakenly wandered into a large boars hibernation den escape path. Thankfully my Mod 29 was unholstered and I was able to get two shots off before he reached me. When people say you only have a few seconds…. believe it! I'll never know if he would have just passed by me or tried to end my days on this earth. I can imagine the horror of that experience with a bear two to three times this large black bears size…..
We all hear stories about great bears killed with a 22…. I have no doubt they are true. But if a handgun is an only firearm option I'd have in great bear country because of convenience or necessity I'll opt for a 500 mag expecting one shot is all I'll get…. if I'm lucky..
JMHO...
A charging bear offers very few shot placement opportunities because of the structure of their heads and the heavy bone and muscle mass of their chest and back areas. Stop by your taxidermists shop sometime when he's skinning out a large adult black bear and you'll see its upper body resembles the "Incredible Hulks" when he's angry! I've never seen a great bear skinned but I can imagine it's amazing!
A side head shot or a standing chest shot offers no problem for many calibers to penetrate to vital areas. But in those typical hunting situations you wouldn't likely have a charging animal. We're talking about a true charging situation where the animal can be on us in seconds and those common hunting shot placements aren't available.
The thick and angular shape of a bears skull is perfect for bullet deflection as pictured below… This is the skull of a huge black bear.
The great bear skulls are significantly larger and thicker. We have very few head-on shot placement opportunities for one shot kills that will stop these monsters…. IMO, they are shot placements directly on the nose or in an eye socket that will drive splintered bone into its brain, otherwise we risk a deflected shot. Try that placement feat with adrenalin pumpin' in a time frame that could be two or three seconds…..
I've shot several large black bear with .41 and .44 mags. One while elk hunting, I had mistakenly wandered into a large boars hibernation den escape path. Thankfully my Mod 29 was unholstered and I was able to get two shots off before he reached me. When people say you only have a few seconds…. believe it! I'll never know if he would have just passed by me or tried to end my days on this earth. I can imagine the horror of that experience with a bear two to three times this large black bears size…..
We all hear stories about great bears killed with a 22…. I have no doubt they are true. But if a handgun is an only firearm option I'd have in great bear country because of convenience or necessity I'll opt for a 500 mag expecting one shot is all I'll get…. if I'm lucky..
JMHO...
thardgrave
Member
Years ago, a very effective Alaska bear gun for guides was the Winchester Model 71 lever action, re-chambered for the 458 Alaskan cartridge. With a lever action and open sights, you would have awesome firepower. Problem is today, M 71's are getting quite pricey.
Really "compelling" scenario for a thread - a combination bear-thread/Glock-bashing opportunity.
If you've never fired a Model 29 you have a lot of work ahead of you. The four-inch is a mean gun. If you can carry a longer gun, I would suggest that (6- or 6.5-inch). The weight difference is not that important. Any N-frame .44 Magnum is a big, heavy revolver. The longer barrel is more controllable and produces a bit more power.
Some people like Magna-porting. After you shoot your new gun a bit, you might want to consider it. I have one 4-inch gun with "magna-snorts" and the ports do seem to make the gun a little more manageable. Unfortunately, they pretty much ruin the resale value of the gun, if that matters to you.
I am not a bear hunter and can't claim any experience but I find it odd that a lot of people pooh-pooh the notion of handguns in bear country. Sure a rifle is preferable, but I wouldn't go there without some sort of pistol (if allowed by law). You just can't take a rifle or shotgun everywhere you go. I know one fellow who believes in "lanyard-ing" his 44 Magnum to his wrist when we goes to sleep just in case things go poorly in the tent in the middle of the night. It might not be guaranteed to save him, but I can't say I think it a bad idea, either.
If you decide you can't swing the S&W, your Glock is better than nothing - with FMJs, I suppose. I'd take it with me if it was all I had.
Tailgate
Member
And THAT folks, is the reality. We'd all like to think the bad boy is going to rear up on his hind legs like in the movies and growl at us, while we take our time to draw and rapid fire a bunch of rounds into his chest and heart.
Nope. He's gonna be coming at you, and you better have SOMETHING that's effective.
And they are usually coming at you from very close range, busting out of the thick brush along a salmon creek etc. If the gun is holstered, that's where it will be when/if they find your remains. Guys who have never been near one, or seen just when and how they tend to come at you, have no idea what it is like in reality. No time for your fancy self defense draw you may have practiced at home. Just enough to time foul yourself while screaming oh ****, and that's about it.
GF
Member
We haven't had a Bear Thread in awhile!
Let's see ... what do I do here in Indiana for a bear gun?
Mac 10 in 45 acp
I haven't seen one yet - but when I do he's swiss cheese.
GF
Let's see ... what do I do here in Indiana for a bear gun?
Mac 10 in 45 acp
I haven't seen one yet - but when I do he's swiss cheese.
GF
Doug M.
Member
I'm not into the bear gun strings, for many reasons. However, as a practical matter, a G20 with an aftermarket longer barrel (I think you can do 6") and well constructed heavy solid bullets is likely to be more useable than any revolver.
A heavy load is pretty similar to the .41 Magnum (I think a lot closer than the 15% estimate above). It's 13+1, not 6. It's easier to shoot hot loads from an auto pistol. With other accessory barrels, it will do well with .40 and .357Sig (a friend has one and has done this), both of which would be cheaper to shoot for training and other purposes, like defense against humans in other settings. You are already familiar with Glocks and what will work in terms of accessories, etc. I'm not a total Glock fan, and I sure am not a fan of the .40 in general. I would surely not carry one for bears. But, the 10MM is a very different issue, and may be far more useable for your purpose than others are suggesting.
Long guns: as short as legally possible (18" barrel, which is the longest I would own; 26" OAL), for ease of handling in close. Big calibers, as have been suggested. Big visible sights, like old style express sights, or modern XS - with the big dot, IMHO. In a shotgun, a semi-auto, with slugs. There are 10 gauge semi-autos, but it would take some custom work to make one easier to handle. My understanding is that they are all big/heavy/ponderous. OTOH, I used to see 10gauge slugs advertised - 2 ounces. Not fun to shoot under any scenario I can foresee, but priceless under the conditions at issue. 45-70s with the right load; 458s, 375 H&H, etc. No really my lane, so I leave the choices to others.
A heavy load is pretty similar to the .41 Magnum (I think a lot closer than the 15% estimate above). It's 13+1, not 6. It's easier to shoot hot loads from an auto pistol. With other accessory barrels, it will do well with .40 and .357Sig (a friend has one and has done this), both of which would be cheaper to shoot for training and other purposes, like defense against humans in other settings. You are already familiar with Glocks and what will work in terms of accessories, etc. I'm not a total Glock fan, and I sure am not a fan of the .40 in general. I would surely not carry one for bears. But, the 10MM is a very different issue, and may be far more useable for your purpose than others are suggesting.
Long guns: as short as legally possible (18" barrel, which is the longest I would own; 26" OAL), for ease of handling in close. Big calibers, as have been suggested. Big visible sights, like old style express sights, or modern XS - with the big dot, IMHO. In a shotgun, a semi-auto, with slugs. There are 10 gauge semi-autos, but it would take some custom work to make one easier to handle. My understanding is that they are all big/heavy/ponderous. OTOH, I used to see 10gauge slugs advertised - 2 ounces. Not fun to shoot under any scenario I can foresee, but priceless under the conditions at issue. 45-70s with the right load; 458s, 375 H&H, etc. No really my lane, so I leave the choices to others.
Just to be clear here....if the 29 doesn't do Mr. Bear in, the 'bear spray' is for you to spray in your eyes so you don't have to watch what happens when a really PO'd bear comes for you.
I guess I had it backwards. I thought the gun was for personal use after the bear spray didn't work out so well.
Hi:
Forget .44magnum, 10mm, .40S&W, and 12gauge.
Carry two (2) hand grenades, one (1) straight razor, and one used dirty diaper (adult size Depends). Also a good pair of running shoes and a one legged companion that you have dosed with bar-bq sauce
Forget .44magnum, 10mm, .40S&W, and 12gauge.
Carry two (2) hand grenades, one (1) straight razor, and one used dirty diaper (adult size Depends). Also a good pair of running shoes and a one legged companion that you have dosed with bar-bq sauce
Ha-ha.
Can you keep that thing on a bear-size target beyond 10-feet or so? I have a friend in Wyoming who has several Hoosier and Buckeye friends. He knows a little bit about us from the chatter he has to put up with and he always jokes that there are more "bear rifles" in Indiana and Ohio than there are in Alaska and Montana. Wouldn't be surprised if he is correct.
I'd carry my 63. Every few yards I plink something. More macho than ringing a bell.
Seriously, my dad was in a government sponsored expedition where the threat was tigers. Rule was to travel in pairs with each man carrying a Thompson or Garand. Don't be alone if you aren't the top of the food chain.
Seriously, my dad was in a government sponsored expedition where the threat was tigers. Rule was to travel in pairs with each man carrying a Thompson or Garand. Don't be alone if you aren't the top of the food chain.
Bill Bates
Member
When I run into an unhappy one of these.
I'm going for my bear spray first, every time, and the .44 Mag as a last resort. Laying down a fog of bear spray will drop a bruin to its knees. It is quick and doesn't take as much skill as the ol' .44 Magnum. A bear charge is amazingly fast. Drawing and putting rounds where they won't just make the old bear mad takes nerves of steel and a lot of skill.
Taken a minute ago just for this thread. Yeah I'm grabbing the spray first.
I'm going for my bear spray first, every time, and the .44 Mag as a last resort. Laying down a fog of bear spray will drop a bruin to its knees. It is quick and doesn't take as much skill as the ol' .44 Magnum. A bear charge is amazingly fast. Drawing and putting rounds where they won't just make the old bear mad takes nerves of steel and a lot of skill.
Taken a minute ago just for this thread. Yeah I'm grabbing the spray first.
Taken a minute ago just for this thread. Yeah I'm grabbing the spray first.
A 5" 29 is my grail gun. Way nice.
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