Shooting at Colorado Walmart

mnshutterbug

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From the Denver Post - "Shoppers pulled guns in response to Thornton Walmart shooting, but police say that slowed investigation.
Authorities had to eliminate possible suspects from surveillance video."

Armed Walmart shoppers slowed police in shooting investigation

I've been taught not to pull your weapon unless you plan on using it. I know I wouldn't pull my pistol unless I have a target. Besides, officers hear of a shooting with casualties and they rush in and a trigger happy LEO sees me with a gun...
 
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What I took away from the news, is that you don't know where or when an issue will present itself. In Colorado, just fairly recently, we've had the Colorado Springs church shooting, the theater shooting, and this at a Thornton WalMart. I see again and again how people carry depending on the "area" they will be frequenting. I'd say, you don't know what that will be from day to day. Thornton WalMart would be considered fairly benign in these parts. Oh, and the theater, too. Oh, and also the Church. See a pattern here? That's right! There's no pattern. Carrying is kind of like preparing for a biohazard, you don't just double-glove for the HIV patients, you prepare ALL THE TIME, as you don't know who is HIV positive, or Hep-c or whatever.
 
"slowed their investigation" - that's a good one. The videos must not be time stamped. Hey you guys, if the time the gun is shown being pulled is after the shooting time it might not be the shooter.

How quickly after the shooting did the police get to the video and view it?
 
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As has been said, such situations are too unpredictable and fluid to make any hard and fast rules. That’s where good judgment comes in.

If you draw your gun too early or unnecessarily, you can inadvertently escalate and make a situation more dangerous, or even get yourself killed.

If you draw too late, it may literally be too late.

Be that as it may, reading the article and the police comments, facilitating or slowing the speed and efficiency of the police investigation would not be the primary factor in my decision if and when to draw. Surviving would be.
 
I'm not buying it at all. I doubt seriously that the presence of armed citizens slowed down the identification of the shooter much, if any at all.

I've seen a lot of Walmart surveillance footage over the years and worked with some of the operators in several stores. It's no big chore for them to isolate activity occurring in a given part of one of their stores. The gear they use is on par with that of casinos, and the stores are generally much better lighted.

Like one poster here already said, if they are looking at someone with a gun after the shooting, given their actions and proximity to the event, a pretty quick look is going to tell the tale if they are involved in the criminal violence.

Add to the mix that Walmart has at the corporate level, their "global security", people. Real pros, who bring their expertise to the aid of Law Enforcement right quick. I've actually seen one of them sitting here in Oklahoma, showing us near real time images of a west coast store, and producing from the same computer, images of sales slips for items purchased by suspects he'd just shown us.

I've no doubt that a police spokesman said something about these armed citizens being a factor. What else would a talking head say to media in a PC, mile high major city like Denver? However, the article chose to quote vary sparingly as they crafted this notion around very few actual words of the police spokesman. The longest quote in the article was in reference to the fluidity of the situation. Feels like manipulated, fake news, spoon fed to an audience that by and large knows no better and more than willing to accept what a, "respected", news organization gives them.

FWIW, the real story should be that in a major city,out of millions of people, cops had this animal identified in five hours and arrested in about fourteen hours of the event. Pretty darn good police work. And hardly, "trigger happy", at all.
 
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Maybe they had to wait for it to be developed at CVS? :rolleyes:

"slowed their investigation" - that's a good one. The videos must not be time stamped. Hey you guys, if the time the gun is shown being pulled is after the shooting time it might not be the shooter.

How quickly after the shooting did the police get to the video and view it?
 
Interesting. So how would the police want us to handle the situation? I'm curious.

We can learn from this.

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Please. I'm open.

First thing for me, is gather my wife behind me. I don't go to Walmart usually. If I do it is with her. I know. Same situation at Walmart a concealed carry holder was shot in the back. Get her behind me and hold on to me. Both heads on a swivel. Back to back.

Second, draw. Sorry. I've got to protect her. That's #1. I can appreciate the police have a job to do but mine is more immediate. Protect my wife.

Third, find cover. I can control and direct her to safety and/or cover.

Fourth, call 911.

Fifth, when police arrive and take over. gun gets holstered.

That's the way I see it.

I pray that never happens here.
 
I agree with Oakie. I am sure the media has colored the whole situation and most police spokesman take orders from politicly appointed chiefs.
I know from my own experience... I had one case on the 4-12 shift about an assault an robbery. The Lt. had to talk to the reporter and give the facts that he could for the newspapers. When I read what was written in the paper I could not believe my eyes. It was totally different than what was told to the reporter..Always look at these reports with a jaundice eye..
 
Spokes;139802211 I had one case on the 4-12 shift about an assault an robbery. The Lt. had to talk to the reporter and give the facts that he could for the newspapers. When I read what was written in the paper I could not believe my eyes. It was totally different than what was told to the reporter..Always look at these reports with a jaundice eye..[/QUOTE said:
Makes sense. I recall a short stint with a small town paper where I was hired as a photographer/reporter. I reported on a story and did the write up. At the final layout I noticed the editor, also the owner, added things that were supposedly said. I pointed out that was not at all what was said and he told me if I didn't like it to go ahead and remove it before it went to press. I did and my position was terminated within a month. I guess it's called editorializing.
 
As in any situation; protocol is run, hide,THEN fight. I don't pretend to be a tactical operator in any sense of the imagination and would want to be as far away from the shooter and the local tacticool wannabes as possible. Hopefully finding an exit while running or a hiding place farthest as possible away from the shooter. Drawing a weapon would be the last resort.

I don't carry to be a hero and save the public; if you need a saviour in that scenario.... Call a cop!
 
How unsportsmanlike of those potential victims to screw things up for the police investigation. They should have waited to be shot, thereby eliminating as many suspects as possible.

They might have not even been in any danger. They might have just heard the shooting from the other side of the large store and panicked. That is probably more than likely the scenario.
 
I think it all depends on how you "draw" your gun.

I might draw mine but keep it by my side where many might draw theirs and bring it to a full ready position.
 
I'm guessing that the many witnesses gave descriptions of the shooter as soon as the police arrived. Old fashioned law enforcement of interviewing witnesses. Anti gun article bordering on politics, I won't waste time on giving the author the time of day. Thread probably should be closed based on site rules.
 
Here's an excerpt from a letter I wrote to one of the guys I worked with in the Denver metro:

"That Walmart is the one I always went to after I went to Sportsmans Warehouse on the drive
back to Brighton. They usually had better prices on .22's than the warehouse.

The 3 rules I got out of the Denver Post article were:

1. ALWAYS CARRY. Put it on top of your wallet and keys so you pick it up first when you
get ready to leave the house.

2. The police are always there after the fact so you have to fall back to rule 1.

3. Constantly scan your surroundings for threats because of rule 2.(Cops being there after the fact)

I saw Thornton PD whined the concealed carriers slowed down the investigation. I'm sure they were
protecting themselves and not looking for the BG to engage him. That was the Police's job.
( And they get a D- for being there after the fact .)

This is not a put down of law enforcement. They are just stretched way too thin. As a result, you can't
carry a cop in your back pocket.

Here's the Vid we saw this week at work, It's made by the City of Houston:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0[/ame]

Now that I'm in the great white north, I carry when we go out to the Mall or grocery shopping.
Not much else. I might have to reconsider that. "

End of excerpt
 
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