Shooting Super High With Model 36

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kbm6893

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I've owned a bunch of J frames and never been a very good shot with any of them. At the up close and personal range they are designed for, I can keep the hits in the middle torso, BUT I have to aim low to hit what I'm aiming at. I'm talking below a 6 o'clock hold. The groupings are always pretty tight.

But at 25 yards, I am hitting FEET above where I am aiming. I'm shooting my 158 grain reloads. Only thing I can figure is I am exaggerating the recoil to account for hitting so high. Could it be anything else?

I know J frames take a while to master, and I never shot any of them enough to really get there. Sometimes many months go by without shooting them, but hitting feet above my target? That's crazy.

The 36 I was shooting has pachmayr grips on it. Very comfy so I don't think it's the grip. My other J frame, a 640, has smaller pachmayr's on it and I never shot that well, either.
 
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It may be your shooting technique-or lack thereof. One thing that comes to mind is how hard you grip the gun. It's not a toothbrush. You might do better with different grips. The smaller the pistol the more difficult it is to shoot it well. You might try to find someone to coach you.

Mechanically, it might be because they were sighted for 110 gr +P ammo. That would cause the 158 gr bullets to hit high......but, I don't think as high as you're claiming. Where does it shoot with factory 158 gr? Or, for that matter, the 130 gr FMJ military type loading?
 
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WR Moore said:
It may be your shooting technique-or lack thereof. One thing that comes to mind is how hard you grip the gun. It's not a toothbrush. You might do better with different grips. The smaller the pistol the more difficult it is to shoot it well. You might try to find someone to coach you.

Mechanically, it might be because they were sighted for 110 gr +P ammo. That would cause the 158 gr bullets to hit high......but, I don't think as high as you're claiming. Where does it shoot with factory 158 gr? Or, for that matter, the 130 gr FMJ military type loading?
Click to expand...

Haven't tried it with any other ammo. I was under the impression that fixed sighted S&W revolvers were sighted in with 158 grain.

First time shooting the gun. First time shooting a j frame in probably 2 years. For the up and close job they do, the hits were adequate. Still, not used to sucking so bad. With other guns, I'm a pretty good shot.
 
Lighter weight (and faster) ammo will impact lower on the target.

Maybe try some 110's or 125's.
 
Hate to say it, but really the only thing that comes to mind when you say it shoots FEET high at short range is --- the shooter.

Just out of curiosity, have you shot this particular gun before? With this ammo, or with some other load? If another load, how did it shoot with that?
 
Pisgah said:
Hate to say it, but really the only thing that comes to mind when you say it shoots FEET high at short range is --- the shooter.

Just out of curiosity, have you shot this particular gun before? With this ammo, or with some other load? If another load, how did it shoot with that?
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree. As I said, I've never been a great shot with J frames and it's probably been at least 18 months since I shot my 640. I doubt I've taken a J frame to the range half a dozen times in the last 10 years. Even when I qualified with one, my old Ruger SPNY, I was a terrible shot with it. Not so with a 4" K or L frame.

It was my first time shooting it. Just got the gun. A 40 year old Model 36. I do slip my 640 into my pocket every now and then. Again, for self defense ranges I am adequate with it.

I had a couple of light strikes with my reloads and when I got a click instead of the bang, my sight stayed pretty level. A tiny dip anticipating recoil, but no jerking. Smooth roll of the trigger. I just think I suck with them and always will.
 
kbm6893 said:
Haven't tried it with any other ammo. I was under the impression that fixed sighted S&W revolvers were sighted in with 158 grain.

First time shooting the gun. First time shooting a j frame in probably 2 years. For the up and close job they do, the hits were adequate. Still, not used to sucking so bad. With other guns, I'm a pretty good shot.
Click to expand...
Yes, they seemed to be intended to be used with 158's. However, possibly S&W erred somehow, or maybe someone altered the front sight for lighter bullets, and did it so carefully that you can't see the evidence.

Best thing is to get another known good shooter to try it out, maybe at 15 yards, or even closer, and see if he groups fairly well. If he does, you'll know from where the group is whether it's you or the gun. Probably your own group at a reasonable (less than 15 yards) distance will give you a hint, but it's probably best to get a second opinion.
 
As stated above, most .38's are sighted for 158 gr standard velocity ammo. However, yours being an experienced revolver, a previous owner or LEA may have altered the sights for lighter bullet weights that strike lower.

I don't, however, think that's the issue. My father once told me that my grandfathers pistol (H&A .38 S&W) shot feet high. When I got older, I shot it myself and found out it shot to the sights, miniscule though they were.
 
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This is where bore lasers come in handy in determining if it shoots high due to sighting or ammo, even both.

I once had an issue, that I still can't figure out today because it defies physics, where using the same loads the shots were sighted in close at ~15 yds, but at 50yds they shot high with precision.
 
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__steve__ said:
I once had an issue, that I still can't figure out today because it defies physics, where using the same loads the shots were sighted in close at ~15 yds, but at 50yds they shot high with precision.
Click to expand...
I am not really sure, but I believe that that would be normal with a six o'clock hold at 15 yd, at least if the bullseye is disproportionately large.
 
The sights on a M36 or M640 are much harder to see than those on an L frame or K frame with adjustable sights. Even a 4" K frame with fixed sights has a much better sighting system because of the longer barrel.

These guns are sighted for standard velocity, round nose 158 gr ammo. There may be some differences attributable to using hand loaded 158 gr ammo, but I doubt it would be the primary difficulty here.

I suspect that OP's difficulty stems from trying to see the front sight, and therefore sighting high (front sight high in the sight picture). It doesn't take much apparent elevation with a 1 7/8" barrel to get a pretty wild poi.

J frames are the most difficult guns to shoot well of all the common revolvers. Takes a lot of practice to develop much skill at ranges in excess of arm's length with one.
 
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^^^what Rpg said. To remove as many variables as possible, I would have someone bench the gun, shoot it from a rest position, but from much closer than 15 yards. Maybe 5 yards or even 10 feet with 158gr service ammo. Fire single action, cocking the hammer. Want to see what the gun is capable of close-in and then work our way out. Don't like bulls-eye targets for snubs, paper plate or half-sheet of typing paper more realistic and meaningful. Wish I could be there to help: snubs like me! ;)

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
 
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Here's a few things I've picked up shooting J-frame snubnose .38s at 25 yards...I usually shoot Bullseye style single-action with one hand. 158 grain factory equivalent cast bullet handloads (about 750 fps from a 2" barrel) shoot 4"-5" high. If your grip isn't firm, shots will land much higher.

Using a two-handed hold and single-action or double-action, point of impact will coincide very closely with the point of aim. Shoot at the smallest target you can see clearly without eyestrain. Your groups will be smaller. I find a 2" black square with a white center about 1" square works best (for me, anyway) at 25 yards.

Try several ammos. I don't care for light bullets in the .38 Special, but they will bring down the point of impact. If it appears your front sight has been molested, find a good revolver smith to fix that.

These guns are very sensitive to consistency of grip and the firmness of grip. A shooter's shortcomings show up quickly with such revolvers and that's why they have an undeserved reputation for inaccuracy. Good luck-
 
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Having a a solid grip on these is a BIG help. I put VZ G10 wrap around grips on my J frame and was able to focus more on aim and less on trying to maintain my grip.
 
It is possible that it is sighted in for shooting down airplanes? Could be a rare variant. Check the book.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk
 
Here's a pic with the grips. Very comfy. Don't think it's the grips.

The front sight was totally washed out. Maybe I'll try some red paint or a bore sighter.

52410011953_492700d5f7_k.jpg


I know I used to suck royally with my 642 but put a set of Crimson Trace grips on it and much much better. Was shooting soda cans from the hip at 10 yards.
 
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