Shot my Highway Patrolman in IDPA, and an issue

[bruner1981]

Last night my local range had an IDPA match so I figured I'd take my 4" pre-28 Highway Patrolman and try it out. Ended up being a great time. I was the only one shooting a revolver last night, so I cleaned up in that division! Overall, I came out placing 26th out of 38, which I don't think is too bad for my first time shooting in a timed match and reloading kinda slow.

I had a bit of an issue though. On the 3rd shooting stage, I drew the gun and got two shots off on target before the cylinder refused to rotate, but the cylinder was still able to open freely to clear it. The trigger was still able to be pulled part-way back, and the hammer would move part way back, but at the point that I assume was where the hand contacted the rotating lug, it couldn't move any further. I checked the extractor rod and it was still tight and not backing out. I noticed what looks like a bit of a drag mark on the recoil shield across the lower end of the relief in the shield where the rotating lugs slide in and out when the cylinder opens and closes. I figured I may have a gummed up chamber causing one of the casings to stick out a bit from the recess and get hung up on the bottom of the relief. I ran a bore brush through each chamber and went on to shoot the next stage. When I loaded my gun, before closing the cylinder I ran my thumb over the back of each case to check that they were flush, which they were. This time, I got 4 shots off before it locked up. So it wasn't dirty chambers either. I took the side plate off last night and didn't see any debris inside the gun that could be causing issues.

I'm not too sure what's happening here. Since I picked this gun up a couple of weeks ago, I put well over 200 rounds through it with no issues whatsoever, until I got to the match last night. I'd rather try to fix this myself than take it to a gunsmith since I want to learn, and can't really afford a gunsmith at the moment. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

One of my coworkers got a couple videos of me running the first two stages without any issues. I'll see if I can get them posted up here.

 

[triaxle]

Maybe a little hi primer, any movement for and aft of the cyl

 

[flintsghost]

If you were shooting reloads and especially with lead there are two things to check. First the barrel/cylinder gap gets mucked up with lead and can cause that problem. When you open it up sometimes the offending debris will fall out and allow you to continue. Check the B/C gap with a feeler gauge when clean and make sure it goes from .004 to .010 which is the old spec. The second thing to check is the case heads and make sure they don't have any dings etc from previous use. If they do then they may be exceeding the headspace dimensions. I've had that problem with a 625 and full moon clips when using reloads that were previously fired in my Colt 1911A1. The ejector would ding the heads a bit and the headspace was tight enough they wouldn't allow the cylinder to turn freely. Good luck

You need to find some Safariland Comp 1 or 2 speed loaders for it. If you can't Speedbeez are almost as good but not quite. HKS aren't even close for speed.

 

[series guy]

First thing to do is clean under the extractor star. I just fixed the same problem this morning on a 986 that had a ton of crud built up. 30 seconds with a toothbrush and all was well. Also check the front screw on the side plate. it retains the cylinder yoke and can cause these issues if loose. Next check the strain screw on the lower front of the grip frame. If it's loose it can cause issues too. Best of luck.

 

[Tmnguuyen]

what's is the barrel to cylinder gap look like? This is a long shot but if it is tight then some carbon build up and the cylinder is not perfect square it may bind at certain spots.

 

[growr]

Unfired powder flakes under the extractor star can cause that....don't ask how I know about this at a USPSA match last year!!

Randy

 

[bruner1981]

Thanks for all the input so far everyone! I was shooting 38 special LRN reloads and the B/C gap is very tight. Hard to see any light through it at all. From my manufacturing background, if I had to venture a guess just from sight I'd say the gap is roughly .005" +/- .001-.002". My reloads were pretty dirty so that could have caused the issue. I checked under the star after the issue first occurred but I didn't see any obvious debris there but I will clean it again to be sure when I get home. After the match, I took all spent cases and loaded ammo, put them in the cylinder, pulled the hammer back to release the cylinder stop and spun the cylinder and had no hang ups.

Right now it makes sense that it was the B/C gap issue. That was my first time running a lot of specials through it. All the other rounds have been hot magnums so I was getting a fireball through the gap with every shot which must have cleared it. Guess I'll have to go back to the range and run another few hundred rounds and try to recreate it. Is there anything else I may have missed?

And for anyone who is interested, I just posted the videos on YouTube. I'll post links here in a second. Even though there was a lot of waiting around last night, this was way more fun than just punching holes in paper

Edit: So only one video went up successfully. The other one is entirely in slow motion for some reason. Here is the good one https://youtu.be/fLBsP48USII

 

[old&slow]

First , I would check for a high primer. 2nd clean under the ejector star. A flake or two of under burnt powder or something could have got under it. It doesn't take much.

 

[wbraswell]

I have a 25-2 that would be very hard to rotate on one chamber. I found that the hand was engaging a small ridge on the extractor star, making the cylinder turn early, which took a lot of effort for it to rotate. This was negligible until the gun was loaded.

 

[Abflyboy]

You are probably already on the right track with leading in the B/C gap causing tie-up but don't forget to check the strain screw. It needs to be seated all the way in to the grip frame.

I had an N-frame .44 Magnum doing the same thing and it gave me fits for quite a while.

Something super simple like a screw loose ...

Anyway, it's worth a look if you haven't already.

 

[bruner1981]

I just got back from class and was able to take a look at the gun again. The strain screw is as tight as it can be, under the star is clean, but the B/C gap seems much smaller than I thought. Along the lines of only a few thousandths wide. Definitely could have been locked up by leading. I don't have access to a feeler gauge at the moment so I can't figure it out exactly right now. Hopefully that's all it was. Maybe for the next match I'll have to take a brush to clean the B/C gap area, or just shoot my 357 loads to just blow away all of the debris. Any other suggestions for the time being?

 

[texmex]

Since this is a pre 28 I assume the chambers are counter bored so the cartridge rims are recessed into the cylinder. Any powder residue or other stuff that gets into the tiny recess for the rims can cause a round to stick out enough to jam things up. Everybody loves the old "pinned & recessed" magnum revolvers but they sure got easier to keep going when they did away with the recessed part. Sometimes light loads can really get a revolver dirty rather quickly. The cases don't expand enough or fast enough to keep powder residue from blowing back into the works.

 

[Nightowl]

Auto parts stores used to sell feeler gauges at a reasonable cost. Don't know if the still do. Vehicle tune ups are a lot different than when I got mine. Also, be sure to hold the muzzle straight up so that any debris falls out of the cylinder with the cases.
Also, a slightly high primer can cause those symptoms as well. Once I learned to seat all primers to the bottom of the cup, rather than flush, I quit having misfires and high primers.
Did you check the endshake? that could be the reason for the restricted B/C gap.

 

[bruner1981]

Auto parts stores used to sell feeler gauges at a reasonable cost. Don't know if the still do. Vehicle tune ups are a lot different than when I got mine. Also, be sure to hold the muzzle straight up so that any debris falls out of the cylinder with the cases.
Also, a slightly high primer can cause those symptoms as well. Once I learned to seat all primers to the bottom of the cup, rather than flush, I quit having misfires and high primers.
Did you check the endshake? that could be the reason for the restricted B/C gap.

I'll run by the auto parts store tomorrow once I'm off class. I've actually never learned how to check the endshake. How should I go about that?

 

[barrya]

Good utube video on the Midwayusa channel. End shake is explained very well and how to check it. Barry

 

[stu1ritter]

All of my Smith's do that! I keep a toothbrush in my bag and without thinking anymore, unload the revolver, give a good brush under the star and the recess in the cylinder and go right back to shooting. It's become a drill. I believe every S&W will do that when shooting any quantity of ammo.

Stu

 

[old&slow]

I just got back from class and was able to take a look at the gun again. The strain screw is as tight as it can be, under the star is clean, but the B/C gap seems much smaller than I thought. Along the lines of only a few thousandths wide. Definitely could have been locked up by leading. I don't have access to a feeler gauge at the moment so I can't figure it out exactly right now. Hopefully that's all it was. Maybe for the next match I'll have to take a brush to clean the B/C gap area, or just shoot my 357 loads to just blow away all of the debris. Any other suggestions for the time being?

If I remember right ,, B/C gap should be about .005 to .012. A piece of typing paper is about .005 ,, a business card is about .015 .. That should give you a ballpark # and method to use..
( someone will probably come along that has a better memory than mine with the correct B/C range)

 

[H Richard]

I'm with everyone that said to check under the extractor star. Unburnt particles of powder, especially a larger flake such as Unique, can lodge in places you won't see with a casual glance. When ejecting your rounds, be sure the barrel is pointed straight up, not sideways or at an angle, it lessens the chance of getting crud under the star, and I recommend using very fine powder such as 296, or Accurate #7 or 9 in a 357.

 

[bruner1981]

I scrubbed out the area under the star last night thoroughly so anything that was there is gone now. I also checked the endplay and that is going to need to be fixed. When the cylinder is as far forward as it can go, I can barely see any light through the gap. I'm going to pick up some feeler gauges and order some bearings after class today

 

[old&slow]

Unburnt particles of powder, especially a larger flake such as Unique, can lodge in places you won't see with a casual glance. .

I use to use Unique for my .44 bowling pin load. Had the cylinder bind up on me one day. Found a single flake of Unique under the star. Haven't used hardly any Unique since.