Shotgun powders...

johngalt

johngalt

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I perusing the list of shotgun powders made by Alliant, and I noticed that they have a large number of fast powders that do the same thing - 12 gauge target. I think there is red dot, promo (same as red dot), American select, e3, clay dot, and extra-lite. Why so many?

I was thinking ahead, in case my favorite (bullseye) ever became unavailable, which would be the best alternative. I'm a bit confused as to why so many that do the same thing.
 
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Some if those powders are better at less than an oz. if shot and others an oz. or more. Accuracy is better with some and others are made with newer technology.
 
Two reasons come to mind:
1)Variety sells more anything
2) re loaders love to experiment

Without knowing your exact uses, it's hard to say what would substitute for Bullseye. Some will swap near evenly in a recipe. Some can over pressure badly in the wrong application. I like BE, Unique and Titegroup for general purpose pistol powders . I've also used my share of Clays ,Red Dot and Blue Dot in handgun loads too.

p.s. Stock up while supplies are fat and you won't have to worry. An 8 # jug of BE goes a LONG way in handguns.
 
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While it's likely there some "see our great new product!" involved, there are differences in volume, metering characteristics, performance in cold weather, and burn rate, etc. For example, an identical shot charge at the same velocity will have a tighter pattern with American Select than with Red Dot.
 
Just a thought, why not buy a few 8lb jugs of Bullseye so you won't run out. You can load around 18,000 rounds of .38 Special with one 8 pounder or 12,000+ 45 Auto rounds.

I put in a bunch of W231 but I'm now down to only 12lbs so I'm in the market.
 
...in case my favorite (bullseye) ever became unavailable, which would be the best alternative.
Click to expand...

If Alliant can't deliver Bullseye (or its modern "replacement" Sport Pistol) why do you expect that their other powders would be any more avaiable?

But, Bullseye is close to Clay Dot, American Select and Green Dot, any of which could be used in place of Bullseye with similar performance. Check published data for particular loads as nothing is a grain-for-grain substitute for Bullseye.
 
I have plenty of Bullseye (stocked up the summer before the election, just in case), I was just interested in what other similar powders are available.

I don't load for shotgun, I was surprised at the number of choices. I've read that e3 is not recommended for pistol, but no explanation of why.

I've read that 20/28 is an almost exact replacement for unique. I've seen both red dot and American select recommended for target loads, but no reason for choosing one over the other. I don't know much about clay dot except it is supposed to be a duplicate of Clays
 
Within the Alliant line the best replacement for Bullseye is Red Dot, burns cleaner too if that is important to you.

"I've read that e3 is not recommended for pistol, but no explanation of why." Don't second guess tha manufacturer, they have good reason for this restriction.Most handgun cartridges operate at significantly higher pressure than shotgun ammunition, possibly it is erratic or experiences pressure spikes at higher pressures! Yes this is conjecture, but a valid possibility.
 
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Days of old were Red Dot and Unique for trap and field loads
with Blue Dot for heavy field loads.

The shotgun case and wad set up can be very cpmplecated when
you can go from a International 24 gram at1345fps up to a
12 Ga. 1 1/8 oz. payload at 1200fps. 1 1/2 oz at 1205 possible.

All these payloads and speeds have a mixture of pressures that
come into play, one reason for all of the different powders and
their types of make up.

The new e3 powder works great with a 7/8 oz X-Lite load at 1145fps
while the slower green Dot or Unique would not have the best burn rate.
You will also have to match the powder to the types of wads used
to get the fps needed and a load that is "Balanced" and will have a good crimp.
Too much wad, powder or shot will not be able to be crimped
and not enough will cause a collapsed crimp for poor performance.

LOTS of reading and study is needed for the "Art" of loading shotgun shells.........

and YES;
e3 does not work out well with 38 special loads...... so they are correct.
 
It's good to have options, many countries that allow reloading do not. Every powder has a slightly diff burn rate & pressure curve, so some will do one thing better than another. Shotgun, rifle or pistol, good to have options.
 
I've used e3 in 9/40/45 and it does work, but it is really fast with a high Nitroglycerin content. While it does work, I would only recommend it for low velocity/low recoil loads. I think it's a little too fast for medium speed loads.

Hodgdon is doing the same with their marketing strategy. Not only are they trying to take away market share from Alliant with their IMR Red, Green, Blue, but they are even making a second clone "Unequal" to try to take away Unique market share when in fact "Universal Clays" is almost an exact copy of Unique performance. Alliant did that with Clay Dot to the point of simply saying "use Clays load data"

For us loaders, the good thing is that with the right knowledge and experience, we can go to the store and know what powders work for a certain application and when there's another shortage, we can scoop up whatever's on the shelves while others walk out of the store empty handed.
 
What I wonder about, and I only wonder, cause I'm not smart enough to know, is why is shotgun powder required to be fast? A 1-1/4 shot load is about 560 grains, that's heavy. The tube is long, 30" and big .75 cal. If we were talking a dangerous game rifle wouldn't we be talking slow burning powders?

I follow the book, and don't vary much. I don't want to be a pioneer in reloading. But like I said, just wondering.
 
cahotshoe said:
What I wonder about, and I only wonder, cause I'm not smart enough to know, is why is shotgun powder required to be fast? A 1-1/4 shot load is about 560 grains, that's heavy. The tube is long, 30" and big .75 cal. If we were talking a dangerous game rifle wouldn't we be talking slow burning powders?

I follow the book, and don't vary much. I don't want to be a pioneer in reloading. But like I said, just wondering.
Click to expand...

Well its not, just depends on the application. SG are low pressure rounds, so faster powders work better, but when pushing larger volumes of shot, they do use slower powders. BlueDot is one used for magnum 12ga loads, Longshot is another.
 
I used Clays in 12ga shotgun for 25yrs or so till I finally ran dry.
I had bought a 8# of Alliant ClayDot to take it's place when that time came.
But just when I figured it was time to switch,,the local distributor came up with more Clays.
This last stuff is made in Canada (I'm told). The older was made in AUstralia,,they had a fire or other problem in the factory that cut production.
Anyway, I went right to that 'new' Clays powder. I didn't get through 25rds before I pulled it from the MEC 9000 press.
It wouldn't meter at all, it bridged in the powder drop tube, What a mess. No drop in one case,,a double in another, sometimes the powder would drop onto the machine as the cases rotated around,,

I went over to that ClayDot and have had no problems and it loads just like the old Clays. Same low pressure loads available using the same componets, same powder drop bushing.

I'm not one for changing things obviously!, but I sure appreciated the fact that an alternative was available and w/o any hassle to set up and get back to loading.

Now what to do with 8#'s of 'fluffy' Clays...
 
load pistol rounds with that new fluffy Clays.

I reload for metallic and shotshell. Universal does a decent job (think like Unique) for 32-45 pistol rounds and 20 gauge target loads. I use Titewad for 3/4oz 12 gauge target loads. TW supposedly can be used for 9mm, but I haven't found an accurate load yet.
 
Per post #14;

There is a big difference from big and dangerous and fast powder.

Fast powder is easy on the pocket book for loads at 1 1/8 oz or smaller. Many just use a 1 oz. payload for most of their shooting. Many shooters also use a short 26-28" barrel for fast
swing time and light weight. A 100 round of Sporting Clays can make for a heavy weapon at the end of the day.
For practice I use and loaded a light 7/8 oz load at just 1145fps for the 16 yard line or skeet.

Now when you start loading the heavy 1 1/4 oz or heavier payloads you are getting into the area of heavier recoil.

Not many can handle a 1 1/2 oz payload at 1330fps for a full box of shells or more in a eight pound weapon, even if an auto with the new buffer systems.

I tried Longshot....... too much noise. Blue Dot is the powder I choose for heavy lead and Steel loads, 20 years ago.
 
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