Shotguns and ammo for home defense

[CraigG58]

This came up while discussing another subject in a different forum, but Jack Flash thought it would be interesting to discuss here where this conversation really belongs.

I'm sure that a lot of folks here utilize shotguns for HD weapons. I use a Mossberg Model 500 12 gauge 3" magnum shotgun (pistol grip, 18" barrel... plug removed so it has 5 round capacity, 6 with one in the pipe).

When it comes to home defense, one thing that always concerns me is penetration. This is the reason why I keep my other HD weapon, a Colt Trooper Mark III .357 magnum, loaded with .38 Special hollow points.

And so the question is, if you use a shotgun for HD, what model is it and with what type of ammo?

It seems a lot of people seem to love 00 Buck for HD, but I would think that it's way overkill for the purpose and would cause some serious penetration issues through walls etc. (especially if 3" magnum shells were used). Some of my friends call me crazy, but I keep mine loaded with 5 rounds of 2-3/4" number 6 or 8 bird shot, somewhere in that range. While I certainly realize what Buckshot would do to someone at close range, my philosophy is that shooting someone in the face for example with up to 5 rounds of the shells I use would definitely screw up their whole weekend.

Opinions? Thanks in advance!

 

[SAFireman]

I live on a pretty sizable lot with many trees, so penetration is not an issue.

I have an 870 Police model loaded with 2 3/4" 00 Buck.

 

[V0OBWxZS16]

Any load that will penetrate a bad guy deeply enough to cause an incapacitating wound is capable of causing serious injuries after passing through wallboard. My philosophy therefore is you should use the best ammunition in order to end the situation in as few shots as possible. The fewer shots I fire, the fewer chances I have to miss. The sooner the bad guy goes down, the fewer shots he can fire, both hits on me and misses that can also over-penetrate.

#1 buck is supposed to be the ideal shot size:

 

[John R]

I think you'll be well served with the lighter shot, your only shooting 20 to 30 feet max inside the house.

 

[Maddog 521]

I have a Winchester Defender with an 18" barrel. If I get serious I use Double 00 Buck. When loaded in the house I use Reduced Recoil #4 buckshot. I can't remember where I got those #4's but they are 2 1/2" long.

 

[jarhead1178]

I have a H&R Pardner 12 gauge, keep it loaded with 2 3/4 LE low recoil.

 

[cyphertext]

There is a reason that birdshot is called "bird" shot... it's for shooting birds. I use #8 on dove, and sometimes they are able to fly off after being hit... If it doesn't stop a dove, do you want to take a chance with an intruder?

I also disagree with using a pistol gripped only shotgun. One advantage of using a long gun is that they are easier to shoot, due to the stock adding an extra contact point on your body and providing more stability. That stability also allows you to get back on target faster with the heavier recoil of a shotgun. Pistol grip only shotgun looks great in movies, but not as useful for HD.

 

[GatorFarmer]

I have two shotguns. I keep neither loaded. I do keep ammunition carriers with them. One is a Mossberg 500 12 gauge. It came with the pistol grip kit, I really ought remember to take that to the pawn shop and sell it for $5. I have owned and fired 500s with the factory pistol grips and did not find them to my liking.

My ammunition is Federal Magnum 2 3/4" OO buck and a greater quantity of good old solid one ounce lead slugs.

I own the gun primarily for if a bear breaks in. Yes, they do that, albeit rarely. Either load will work on humans.

My other shotgun is an old Diamond Arms (Iver Johnson) 16 gauge single shot painted camo, shortened and with some sort of stainless compensated choke on it. I have Number 1 buck and also slugs for it. It actually shoots quite nicely, the more so for the $45 it cost me. It would work on humans in a pinch, but I bought it with the idea of it being a squirrel annihilation device. I hate squirrels.

 

[Mister X]

I used to have a 7-shot Remington 870 loaded(full magazine, empty chamber) with 00 buck. It's use would have been reserved for situations where there was ample lead time to get the family into the designated safe room. In that context, which would be one of firing from a static position down the hall should intruders break down the door, I think the 00 buckshot was probably a good choice.

However, I quickly changed my opinions about the shotgun's (or any long gun) suitability as a home defense weapon after conducting some Force on Force scenario drills in my own home with some of my students who were Police Officers. It quickly became apparent that it was highly unlikely I could even get to and effectively deploy the shotgun in many situations, let alone have everyone gathered together and defend from a static position in the various probable scenarios we drilled. I was always of the opinion that the handgun was the better choice if having to move through the home, but now prefer it for pretty much every home defense scenario including defending from a static location based on what I learned from those FoF experiments.

Irregardless, I think the shotgun has fairly limited viability as a home defense weapon no matter the application.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dtxxvHF_pTY[/ame]

 

[Gamecock]

Ballistic personal defense weapons work by penetration. Think about that then think about trying to limit penetration.

 

[UNCLE PAULY]

I keep a Remington 870 tactical 12 ga shotgun loaded with 2-3/4" 00 buckshot.
Also a Colt AR15 & a 1911 in 45acp.
Others prefer a 20 ga.

 

[Gulfecho]

I've used an 870 for years with zero jams or misfires. Knock on wood. So my choice would be that equipped with an 18" barrel and an extender tube with 7 in the pipe and Winchester 2 3/4 00 buck.

 

[cmort666]

My current home is inappropriate for any kind of non-NFA long gun, but when I did maintain a shotgun for home defense, I used #4 buck with slugs for backup.

 

[dsink]

Remington 870 Police Magnum and Federal Flight Control 00 buck in the magazine, chamber empty.

I used to keep #1 buck in it but after pattering the Federal Flight Control 00, I was sold on it. You had better aim inside 15 yards becouse it dosent spread much.

 

[APS]

Beretta 1301 and #4 buck federal low recoil in the magazine. The sidesaddle has 00 Flight Control and 2 slugs.

 

[spad124]

I live on a pretty sizable lot with many trees, so penetration is not an issue.

I have an 870 Police model loaded with 2 3/4" 00 Buck.

I know we've been through this before on this forum, but I'll play in anyway:

I'm on several acres so I have less concern about neighbors. Plus I'll call 911 and let the Sheriff clear the house. I don't care about the stuff, I'm concerned about defense until the cavalry arrives: Older 870 Express 12ga with a 20" CYL deer barrel. Full stock with 2 3/4 00 buck or #4 buck in a carrier. I took off the 2 round extension so it is in deer gun configuration and not tacticool. It's also good for varmints and livestock protection.

Also have a M10 with +Ps handy- this is the S&W forum after all.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Mossy 500, Federal Flight Control.
Chambered shell and 1st follow-up shell are #4 Buck.
Remaining shells are #00 Buck.

Mindset for mixed loading is #4 should be enough to stop a threat without crazy over-penetration. If the threat remains after the second shot, then the threat must be serious enough to justify upping the shot.

Penetration is a major concern at home. Friendlys everywhere.

 

[Harkrader]

This topic recently came up in our family, consisting of me, one son who is professional military and one who is a LEO.

I keep a Mossberg Mariner modified with Knox System equipment, including box and drum magazines. Frankly, it's too heavy for me these days and I'm looking for something else.

Sooo, I advocated for a semi-auto. In my opinion both Beretta and Benelli semi-autos have proven themselves with competitors and the military.

I recently read a laudatory article about the EAA MKA 1919 Match semi-auto AR-like shotgun. I understand these have a checkered past, but the articles I find online now (ALWAYS trustworthy, of course!) seem to say those problems have been corrected. I really like the look of the gun and its operating features, not to mention its price, and think it might be my choice. ProMag makes 10-round magazines for it.

For ammo, there are now lighter self-defense loads that make sense to me. I live in a small city where the average lot is about 1/2 acre or so, so I think shot penetration is a low concern. Noise, on the other hand, IS a concern!

 

[gwpercle]

Old Springfield pump with 18 inch cylinder barrel, 2 3/4 inch ammo , #4 buck for across the room distance . 00 buck and a few slugs in a butt stock ammo carrier, just in case .
For the house a 20 gauge would do just as nicely, I had the old pump 12 , so it was pressed into service.

 

[CraigG58]

I live on a pretty sizable lot with many trees, so penetration is not an issue.

I have an 870 Police model loaded with 2 3/4" 00 Buck.

I live on about an acre lot myself, also with lots of trees.

My concern isn't so much about pellets leaving the house, but instead about penetrating walls into rooms inside my house where other people are. If you live alone it may not be a concern (unless maybe you have guests over), but I have other family members living here too.