Should handgun "value requests" provide more essential info??

[TDC]

Should there be more basic info provided to post handgun value requests? I think so and I think some others may agree…

We've all seen the many requests for value assessments. Often they seem to make up 1/4 to 1/3 of the threads in the "1961 to 1980" section. The requests are often made by newbies with little or no experience in the handgun buying/selling/trading world.

Often they make a request providing very little information. Because there is so little information they receive replies that are, because of such lacking detail, equally simplistic and commonly in very general and useless terms. In fact, to diminish the thread further, we often see replies from people with no qualifications to assess the value of a handgun other than the ability to type on a keyboard and make a post...

This is the website to go to on the net for info on S&W handguns. Both the posts and the responses here can clearly determine the credibility of this site as the definitive resource for all people seeking facts and opinions. I believe both the value posts/value reply responses often seen here could be damaging to the credibility of this site.

A workable solution would be to establish and require a minimal list of handgun descriptive info that could provide a much better and more accurate appraisal opportunity. That appraisal would certainly be more accurate and beneficial to the OP as well as other owners/buyers and curious members of this board.

I believe a minimal descriptive list should be required to post value requests and include the following basic items:

1. A picture (preferably several)
2. Model number
3. Dash number (or lack)
4. Barrel length
5. Finish
6. Original box or presentation case?
7. Original tools, grips and paper work?
8. Posters estimate of overall condition
9. Area where firearm is located
10. If applicable, the price being requested by seller

I believe each and every item listed above must be factored into a final value assessment or the "estimate" is essentially useless, not only to the OP but all other interested readers…. When we would see a post lacking much of the points above we could direct the poster to the rules requiring a more useful request….

Anyone else feel the same way?

JMHO……

 

[murphydog]

In an ideal world, with "gun people" asking a value estimate, all this information would be very helpful. However, many of these requests appear to come from people who have little familiarity with guns, let alone S & W products.

As you proposed, I think it would be a great idea to take your list, expand upon how to find the information listed (i.e., where does one find the model/dash and serial numbers, how is finish graded?) and post photos, and have it as a sticky for those requesting a value. More work for you, less for the rest of us .

 

[TDC]

Thanks for the reply, murphydog... I'm thinking more work for the posters but less for those answering...

Above all else, the answers could be so much more accurate and useful to everyone. Today we can see price variations as large as $500 or 600 depending on how two responders may visualize the same gun. Both the high figure or the low could be correct but because of such deficient info or lack of pictures provided there is no way to know.

It just seems a much more accurate and useful method could be imposed that could be of more benefit to everyone...

Just sayin'

 

[5Wire]

Something that's collectable is going to stand out and get purchased right way and I think claiming a value should conform to the NRA / Bluebook definitions so the range is sliced into intervals of 10 percent or less.

I track 'sold for', classified prices, and local FFls on about 40 different models and getting the data is somewhat time consuming. Getting the data you want is implied by the classifications in use. Easier to keep it simple.

 

[Dragon88]

Terry, I think in a perfect world a list of required info such as yours would be great for value questions. Unfortunately, I just don't see it happening here on the public section of the forum. How many times have we seen posts asking for the value of a "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG" in "good" condition with no picture. It's just the nature of the beast with so many inexpensive, used Smiths out there.

I'm always impressed at how some members can take a grainy cell phone picture of a Smith with little further description and give a rough appraisal better than any book or price guide.

 

[bamabiker]

All that info and pics would certainly help but there can be value differences in different parts of the country. Also by who is selling a gun...local shop, gun show or individual?
When I give a value I try to base it on what I've seen them sale for or see them for sale for locally. If someone ask for a value opinon and I have one I'll usually give it. I hope no ones thinks it's written in blood.
As far as requiring info and pics, good luck with that. Some people don't own a camera or know how to post pics. (this is not a put down as I was one of them until a forum member helped me)

 

[H Richard]

A great number of the people asking for value don't know enough about guns in general to know where to look for the S/N, Mod#, measure barrel length, describe grips, etc. About the only thing I could recommend is a separate Major heading "How to establish the value of your gun", and within it list all the evaluating items, and how to find and list each one as TDC mentioned. If possible, a "Fill in the blanks" form.

 

[TDC]

A great number of the people asking for value don't know enough about guns in general to know where to look for the S/N, Mod#, measure barrel length, describe grips, etc. About the only thing I could recommend is a separate Major heading "How to establish the value of your gun", and within it list all the evaluating items, and how to find and list each one as TDC mentioned. If possible, a "Fill in the blanks" form.

That is exactly the problem as I see it. There is no place to go to find what info is needed... H Richard's suggestion is something similar to what I was thinking.... I don't believe a "fill-in form" would be necessary, just a guideline...

We don't have any control over the wording or information included in value posts... but it seems we can have some control over what we will respond to.

If a member seeking value is really serious about a more accurate appraisal it just doesn't seem to be too much to ask that as much pertinent information as possible be provided...

I agree many people, especially newbies, don't know what to ask or how to ask. It seems reasonable to me that if they could be guided to a typical request format they would be happy to provide needed info they hadn't been aware was necessary.... The website could write up a guideline once... Post it as a sticky... All the redundancy and/or deficiency disappears in a better worded post and everyone could feel more comfortable with the result...

We've all seen the simple requests and replied to them... It bothers me to make comments that I believe are rather lame and perhaps grossly inaccurate on my part, based on the info provided. It would seem to be a big plus to provide some guidelines or requirements to be followed by everyone... After all.... this is the real world if not the ideal world..

My second 2c.....

 

[5Wire]

What else do you need?

NRA CONDITION STANDARDS
New - not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.
Perfect - in new condition in every respect, may have previously been sold at retail.
Excellent - near new condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing
near perfect (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
Very Good - in perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion
or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
Good - in safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion
or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.
Fair - in safe working condition, but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts
or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion
pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

A great number of the people asking for value don't know enough about guns in general to know where to look for the S/N, Mod#, measure barrel length, describe grips, etc. QUOTE]

And if individuals do not know enough about guns to be able to provide adequate information, this is a chance to educate and inform them what they need to know and where ist is located on their gun.

 

[TDC]

5Wire.... The NRA Standards is good basic info that will address all guns in general. I believe your issue is covered in point 8 below. What we're talking about here is much more specific information related to specific handguns. I believe those specifics need to relate to more than just basic condition....

To repeat the original post list that info provided could include:

1. A picture (preferably several)
2. Model number
3. Dash number (or lack)
4. Barrel length
5. Finish
6. Original box or presentation case?
7. Original tools, grips and paper work?
8. Posters estimate of overall condition
9. Area where firearm is located
10. If applicable, the price being requested by seller

 

[5Wire]

5Wire.... The NRA Standards is good basic info that will address all guns in general. I believe your issue is covered in point 8 below. What we're talking about here is much more specific information related to specific handguns. I believe those specifics need to relate to more than just basic condition....

To repeat the original post list that info provided could include:

1. A picture (preferably several)
2. Model number
3. Dash number (or lack)
4. Barrel length
5. Finish
6. Original box or presentation case?
7. Original tools, grips and paper work?
8. Posters estimate of overall condition
9. Area where firearm is located
10. If applicable, the price being requested by seller

I understand what you are saying. I was going to post the Blue Book of Gun Values criteria which also address the list you posted but I don't want to get slapped for © stuff. The methodology is there, especially in the BBGV criteria. Anything more specific would seem to me to be inside baseball (?) of interest only to collectors. More work than it's worth. YMMV

 

[s&wchad]

I think you're requesting a lot. Some of out longstanding members seem to have trouble with something as simple as the forum rules. We want to encourage new members and make them feel welcome.

How we react to others can have an impact on the way the shooting and collecting fraternity is perceived. Try to be patient and if more information is needed, simply ask for it.

 

[TDC]

Here is a simplified single page that I believe would be sufficient to have the desired effect....
-----------------------------
Value Requests Should Include:

1. A picture (Preferably several - not required but highly beneficial)

2. Model number (Found where the cylinder swings out, inside and above the pivoting point on the frame – or marked on the label of an original box.)

3. Dash number (or lack - Found following the model number if they have one, ie Mod.19-3, Mod. 10-5, Mod.29-2, etc, - or marked on the label of an original box. The dash number identifies any changes or factory modifications - helps the appraiser.)

4. Barrel length (Measured from the face of the cylinder to the tip of the barrel, also found marked on the label of an original box.)

5. Finish (Blued, Nickel, Stainless Steel, other)

6. Original box or presentation case? (Can add substancially to the value)

7. Original tools, grips and paper work? (Pictures best, description OK)

8. Posters estimate of overall condition (Pictures "worth a thousand words")

9. Area where firearm is located (Regional prices can differ significantly)

10. If applicable, the price being requested by seller

 

[murphydog]

Terry;

The checklist looks great. A few suggestions:

For pre-model numbered guns, I ask all metal stampings be spelled out.

Don't know if you meant to leave out asking for the SN, and if not telling the requestor it is OK to leave out a few digits. Also, telling them where the SN is located and not to leave out any letters.

Finally, how about semi-autos? The model number (if any - remember the .35 Auto) and SN location differs from the revolvers, as you know.

 

[TDC]

Thanks, Allen....

I made my prior post a few minutes before I read s&wchad's post so I hadn't read his yet..

I had no idea this threads intent could be perceived as something negative to newbies... I had thought newbies might welcome having some direction and feel more comfortable asking for advice if they knew what to ask.. Not so.....

I'm going to keep my nose out of anything like this in the future and back away from anything further in this regard.....

Sorry if anyone was offended...