Should I keep my laser?

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Okay, please remember there is no such thing as a dumb question.:o I am a firearms veteran (40+ years), but a laser newbie. I got a CT railmaster for my 9c and can't decide if I should keep it. I was foolishly surprised to find out that it is totally worthless during the daylight. And since my range doesn't allow us to shoot after sunset, I'm not sure how often I will get to use it. I think it would be nice for home defense. But I have to change all my holsters for carry. It was relatively cheap ($124 shipped). Anyhow, I'm going back and forth and would like a few opinions on the subject. Thanks!
 
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My wife likes lasers, I used to but found I was getting too lazy with my sight picture which in turn was affecting my grip and trigger pull. I put the laser I had back in the box it came in and put it on the shelf. I'm more satisfied with my shooting now. It's a personal choice but IMO it's just another variable to deal with.
 
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I'm not a fan of lasers for self defense. However, they do have some value. Get comfortable and I'll give you some pros and cons.

The laser seems like it would make aiming easier. As you've seen, that is not necessarily true. A red laser doesn't show in bright daylight very well.

Further, use of a laser requires the shooter to focus on the target rather than the sights. This will cause aiming problems. By not focusing on the sights it makes you totally reliant on the laser. What if the battery dies? What if you have to use a gun without a laser? If you use proper technique, it will be easier to use the sights than a laser. Good sights work under all lighting conditions.

If the laser has to be turned on before use, it's useless. That requires an extra move before firing. That is valuable time lost and requires fine motor skills. As far as I know, only Crimson Trace sells lasers that turn on with a normal grip and don't require any extra motion.

Don't despair, there is a good side to lasers. During practice, especially dry practice, they help with trigger control. A laser will show if you have any movement as you press the trigger.

In a home defense situation, a laser can allow you to aim from behind a barricade. That is the only time I can think of where a laser could be an advantage.
 
Maybe try a Green Laser? I have a red CT on my Glock - but would like to try a green one eventually. They're supposed to be a good bit easier to see during the day.
 
I'd recommend getting rid of it. I can PM you my address & I'll make sure it's disposed of properly, lol.

Personally I can see them for nighttime home defense, especially those that are on a rail mounted flashlight but not too much else. You might be better served with night sights which can also be used in daylight of course. Those who work nights or are vampires will find more need of laser sights.
 
I have read lasers can be a distraction to the eye and actually slow down the shooter.

I am a believer in practicing point shooting or front sight aiming for self defense shooting.

Russ
 
Keep it they are great I have 5 or 6 of them.
It`s true they can`t be seen in the sunlight, but they aren`t needed there.
I just returned a green one ,but only because it wouldn`t fit on my Ruger 22. It was a lot easier to see the green and I wish it had fit.
In a real self defense scenario I think they are perfect , just put the dot on target , no worries about aiming.
I still have other iron sighted guns to practice proper technique, but I`ll definitely be keeping my lasers.
 
Don't despair, there is a good side to lasers. During practice, especially dry practice, they help with trigger control. A laser will show if you have any movement as you press the trigger.

In a home defense situation, a laser can allow you to aim from behind a barricade. That is the only time I can think of where a laser could be an advantage.
I have a laser on my 442. I use it mostly for dry fire practice. I just put the red dot on my wife's favorite stuffed Pooh bears tummy and keep it there as I pull the trigger.
I also use it for point shooting practice, draw the gun, point it, activate the laser to see where it hits and adjust if needed.
I read once about a hostage situation in a fast food restaurant. A citizen with a ccw license and a snubby with a laser put a red dot on the criminals hip and saved the hostage. Ya never know.
 
I read once about a hostage situation in a fast food restaurant. A citizen with a ccw license and a snubby with a laser put a red dot on the criminals hip and saved the hostage. Ya never know.
There are hundreds of situations a year where a person with a gun saves another person. I just prefer to use my sights to get the same result.
 
I have a GLOCK 19, adjustable rear sight, GLOCK GTL22 Light/Laser, Hi Cap Magazines. It is my bedside companion. The open sights are dead on, as is the laser. I can't think of anything that I would trade it for if I were going to use it for the same thing. Since there won't be any long range shooting, I can take the laser off when it is not practical, and put it back at bed time. I have bought and sold quite a few guns over the years, but selling that 19 has never crossed my mind. My 2 cents worth. DLB
 
I have been using lasers since around the year 2000. I started with first generation CTC lasergrips (old style panels) for my 1911. Later I used them on Beretta pistols, S&W 342PD (I still have the old J-Frame 1st gen set on that 342PD), Ruger P90, and S&W M&P. I also have two Streamlight light/laser units, a TLR-2 and TLR-2G (green laser).

First, I will agree that lasers are difficult to see in bright daylight. The red is very difficult after a few feet and the green is only really visible for about 10-15 yards before it becomes very difficult to find/see. It also depends on the type of surface on which the laser is being shined. Some surfaces don't reflect well while others make it very visible.

I think lasers are excellent tools, but are only one tool in the tool box. They work very well in low light and can be a great aid to combat shooting and can work very well to assist in marksmanship training (working on good trigger-press). They can also cause training scars that can result in poor performance in the event the laser doesn't work or if it is deployed in less than ideal circumstances.

I will give some of the "issues" involving lasers, and/or criticisms, and offer my suggestions on ways to overcome those issues to take best advantage of the laser as a combat tool.

1. Lasers breed bad habits: While it is true that one can develop bad habits using a laser, the same can be said of almost any device part of, or attached to a weapon. As one example, training incorrectly regarding safety manipulation can have deadly consequences. The key to any piece of equipment is to understand its benefits, drawbacks, and to train correctly to maximize the former and minimize the latter. Some of the specific bad habits people talk about are:

2. Lasers cause you to focus on the target, not your sights: This is both good and bad. In a self defense situation you WILL be focusing on your target. If you only have sights on your gun you will have to switch focus to your sights, which is extremely difficult under stress. Stress results in involuntary dilation of the pupils which negatively affects near-vision. Your body will "tell" you to look at the threat...To go against that advice is to fight natural body alarm response. At close range, where most self-defense shootings occur, point-shooting, or target-focused shooting, is common and may be necessary. We must identify the target to shoot. We must determine if the target is a threat. We can only do this by focusing on the target. A laser simply takes away the necessity to re-focus on the sights. Better threat identification is the result due to not having to switch focus.

3. If you train to use the laser and it doesn't work or you can't find the dot, you will not have time or ability to find the sights: First, there is the issue of failure to properly train. Some shooters buy a firearm and go shoot without ever learning proper technique or ability to properly clear malfunctions. If the gun goes down, these people will be in bad shape. This is the reality of poor training, and so it goes with lasers. Many people put a laser on the gun and immediately start looking over the gun to find the dot. This is improper technique. The pistol should be brought to the exact same plain as it would to use the sights. We train to look for the sights (even with a laser), but the eye will pick up whatever aiming indicator comes up first, be it the front sight or laser, and engage. If using the laser, the eyes remain open and focus is on the suspect. The gun is blurry and the shooter is actually looking through the blurry "ghost-image" of the pistol to see the dot/target. If the sights are used, the eyes, which will have been focused on the suspect - conducting threat assessment - transition to front-sight focus (if possible based on distance and time) and engage. The really nice thing about a laser is that when it is light outside, the sights will be the obvious choice. When it is dark, there is no confusion in which is faster. I have timed myself and my partners on multiple occasions (we are all weapons instructors, so take that for what it's worth) and the laser is significantly faster to use at night. It is almost useless during the day. Lastly, because the laser is an electrical device that relies on batteries and wires, it can break or run out of power. For this reason, we train to look for the sights, allow the laser to tell you where to shoot. Now you become as fast as possible in as many situations as possible.

4. The laser is slower than sights. This is a common statement, but I think it is a bit misguided. First, we must understand there are shootings that occur during bright full-sun daylight. Statistically, the majority, however, occur during periods or environments of diminished light. During daylight conditions, one must use the sights. It is what it is. In low light, however, it becomes more difficult to see the sights, and while night-sights help in this area, they are by no means perfect, especially the green three-dot variety. Remember...It is low light...Which diminishes vision substantially, then add the body alarm response additionally diminishing near vision, and add movement, changing lighting conditions, the necessity to see the small dots or difficult to distinguish black post/notch sights, and you will see how the use of sights is much more difficult at night. There are ways to combat this, but they all require significant training. Training is a good thing, but so is the ability to react and engage quickly and without fighting the body's response to the environment and circumstance. Using a laser in this situation is significantly faster than using sights. Law enforcement shooting results with lasers have supported this contention, as have our repeated timed tests. (S&W M&P with night sights v S&W M&P with TLR-2 red laser).

5. The laser will give away your position. This common statement makes me chuckle every time I hear it. It's like we are all black-clad ninjas sneaking around in the shadows and a laser will immediately draw the attention of all dastardly criminals lurking around us, previously unaware of our presence. If we are in a self-defense gun fight, the suspect/bad-guy knows were we are...He is attacking us. If he is attacking someone else, then as soon as we draw/challenge/shoot he's going to have a pretty good idea where we are. How is the activation of a little red dot going to have a negative effect? It simply won't. Now, in a law enforcement setting, or home defense when the homeowner is clearing their house, the activation of the laser should be avoided. This is easy...Leave it off.

Green lasers do create a bigger issue because in most circumstances a red laser doesn't cast a very visible beam. This of course will change in foggy, smokey, or gassy conditions (I once used a laser in a house full of CS gas...There was no confusion as to where we were, but if there had been, I would have turned the laser master switch off). The green laser will create a visible beam in most conditions of very low light. It looks really cool, but from almost any angle it would be easy to see where the shooter was. This is a tactical consideration when using green lasers.

6. Some lasers require additional manipulation to activate: This can be an issue. CTC did a great job in creating an instinctive activation. With the introduction of the Surefire X400 and Streamlight TLR-2, there are now units that integrate white light and lasers into one system. Both Surefire and Streamlight now offer pressure switches that activate directly below the trigger guard. This makes both units very instinctive. Without the pressure switches, the Surefire and Streamlight units are easy to integrate into training for proper use. I have done extensive training with the TLR-2 unit, dry and live-fire, both in square-range drills and in scenario-based training in our shoot house and alley ranges. The activation of the switch is not a problem but it is important to train or stress will result in the user simply forgetting to hit the activation switch. I like the X400s durability and quality, but I prefer the toggle system on the TLR-2 series... It's also a couple hundred dollars cheaper! I have fired over a thousand rounds through my TLR-2 and it has held zero and has never failed to function.

In short, I like lasers as a tool for those who are willing to train to take advantage of the benefits of the laser, while minimizing the potential issues that may occur. Lasers are not for everyone, and they are not for every circumstance, but I like having the option for those situations when it is the right tool for the job.
 
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Get rid of it or put it on your night stand gun
I got rid of mine more trouble than it was worth always needing adjustment hard to see etc
 
I appreciate and enjoyed the responses from both sides. Thank you all. I have decided to return the laser. I think it would be great for home defense. But I wanted to keep things simple. If I ever relegate my 9c to home defense only, I may get one. I think I'm going to invest the money in lead and primers.:D
 

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