show us who got the AIG bonuses....
- Thread starter godlessgael
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godlessgael
Member
OP
godlessgael
Member
as one commenter on the story said, this is government money, at least where I live, every year they report salaries/bonuses paid by public money with the names of the people in those positions. i think no less should happen here. let these people be ostracized from society (at the very least....).
BarbC
Member
After all, they did cancel their second luxury retreat.
truckemup97
Member
Here's the problem, though. These bonuses are a part of their compensation package, spelled out in a contract. If the don't pay them, they run the risk of being sued for breach of contract. Many of the people getting a bonus are working in parts of the company that actually did make money, and deserve the bonus for their performance. The rest of the company did so poorly that it ate up any profits that these profitable arms made.
Fred in Alabama
US Veteran
As far as the retreats go, it sounds bad that the companies are spending money on this. But, they book a lot of hotel rooms, buy a lot of food, buy airline tickets, pay performers, bellhops, taxi drivers, janitors, maids, etc. Now a lot of that has dried up and a lot of people are having a hard time making ends meet. This is the Law of Unintended Consequences. To most of us it seems rediculas and wasteful, but it pays a lot of people bills. I'm getting my FLACK jacket and helmut on now, Fire away.
OP
godlessgael
Member
Fred, your point is well taken, but let me also point out the flip side to that. How about using that tax money to keep teachers employeed? I know at the school my wife teaches at, the only classes left are: 4 years of english, 3 of math, 2 history, 2 sciences. they dropped all music, sports, PE, language classes, most history (only US and World remain), health classes. If you want to play a school sport, you have to pay the money for not only the equipment, but also the insurance that the school has to carry. Wouldn't the bailout money be better spent keeping the people these people employed? My dad, also a teacher, had the distinct pleasure of laying off all save one person in his department for next year. First time I have ever heard him on the verge of tears.
klondike
Member
European banks got a pile of AIG money as well.
http://www.iht.com/articles/re...OUNTERPARTIES-sb.php
By Lilla Zuill
Goldman Sachs and a parade of major European banks, including Deutsche Bank , France's Societe Generale and the UK's Barclays , were major beneficiaries of more than $90 billion (64 billion pounds) of money paid out by AIG in the first three-and-a-half months after its bailout by the U.S. government last September.
The disclosure by AIG on Sunday is likely to trigger further criticism of why Goldman, with its many government links, and the European banks were funnelled such huge sums of U.S. taxpayer money after making bad bets on various securities, as well as strengthening the case of those who believe the whole bailout was botched.
Already this weekend AIG has come under intense attack by politicians for bonus payments it made to executives and staff for last year's performance despite its near-bankruptcy and rescue.
http://www.iht.com/articles/re...OUNTERPARTIES-sb.php
By Lilla Zuill
Goldman Sachs and a parade of major European banks, including Deutsche Bank , France's Societe Generale and the UK's Barclays , were major beneficiaries of more than $90 billion (64 billion pounds) of money paid out by AIG in the first three-and-a-half months after its bailout by the U.S. government last September.
The disclosure by AIG on Sunday is likely to trigger further criticism of why Goldman, with its many government links, and the European banks were funnelled such huge sums of U.S. taxpayer money after making bad bets on various securities, as well as strengthening the case of those who believe the whole bailout was botched.
Already this weekend AIG has come under intense attack by politicians for bonus payments it made to executives and staff for last year's performance despite its near-bankruptcy and rescue.
truckemup97
Member
godlessgael, schools are certainly important, and should be funded properly. However, schools should be funded and run on the state and local level, not by the federal government.
bk43
Member
What is so stunning to me is that anyone would have any expectations that these TARPs, bailouts or whatever wouldn't be screwed up. They're government programs so how could one expect anything that really works? We're in for years of this I'm afraid.
Bob
Bob
OP
godlessgael
Member
truckem, I completely agree. Banks shouldn't be run (or at least funded) by the federal government, but they are. I just have a real problem with the idea that these individuals that were able to run a company into the ground and eat up billions of tax payer money should be paid at all.
jframe
Member
AIG ain't the only ones who got bailed out. Look for this same behavior from the other companies who got on the gravy train. Why would anybody believe that they would be any different from AIG?
Uncle Larry
US Veteran
Just my $0.02 worth...contracts are made to be broken/renegotiated...it happens every day in the working world....If you don't attain the goals set forth in your contract, you don't get the bonus or pay raise; seems easy to me.
I don't feel "rewarding" the people that basicily destroyed AIG by making bad decisions is the right thing to do, contract or no contract.
I say let the "wronged" execs sue; I'm sure the money they inject into the economy (attorneys fees, law clerks income, legal secreterys income, etc,etc) will go to better use than to line the pockets of incompetant so called executives.
If a contract is a contract, why then are GM and the UAW renegotiating theirs? Me thinks that if GM wants more bailout money, they have to change their contract(s)..same should apply to AIG, and since we the people own 80% of them we should have some say on pay for performance..
JMVHO & YMMV
I call BS.
Without the bailout they would be bankrupt and would get no bonuses. Renegotiate their contracts or fire them. They shouldn't profit from failure and the need of the country to bail them out.
What happened to the UAW workers? They got their contracts "renegotiated." What happened to the airline workers? They got their salaries and pensions "renegotiated" in Federal Bankruptcy Court.
You take the taxpayers money, you live by the taxpayers contracts - period. Anything else is spin by the execs to gain at our expense.
Munster
bk43
Member
Nope. You are mixing up three very distinct situations that cannot be compared. In bankruptcy the court voids all the contracts and tells the parties involved what the new terms are. Outside of bakruptcy, the UAW and an automaker can negotiate and mutually agree on new terms. The AIG situation is entirely different. The existing employment contracts can't be unilaterally or retroactively changed and so must be honored.
This is why many argued that these financial institutions should be allowed to go into bankruptcy. Then the court can step in and deal with these existing contracts. Of, course, we didn't do that as it would have taken another chance for the government to screw things up off the table.
Bob
greyhawk178
US Veteran
I can almost 100% assure you that these smug, me first, execs could care less how much We The People scream. They're ENTITLED.....
OP
godlessgael
Member
i seriously can't take this stuff anymore. I have got to stop reading the papers and listening to news. i am staying out of the politics section and not reading any more of this stuff in the lounge. chest pains......
stiab
US Veteran
I seriously doubt that. They are not under a contract unless they are represented by a union. In my 30 years in business, including human resources, compensation and payroll, I never knew of management types whose compensation was protected by a contract. Incentive plans yes, but contracts no.
That is not what is being reported in the news. Its says specifically that the $165 million paid as of yesterday all went to the group engaged in the risky investment bundling where AIG lost billions. This is part of a total $450 million bonus package, with the remainder to go to other parts of the company, but the current bonuses we are discussing ($165M) are indeed for the people who caused the problem.
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