Sig facing lawsuit?

[RubenZ]

I have never ever had an issue with my Sigs(P226 mk25, P938,M11-A1). In fact I sold off 4 different Glocks because I just can't stand the sight of them and their grip or lack of. Are they good, hell yes but the sigs Ive owned have been far better weapons. And Glocks of today aren't the Glocks of yesterday. Glocks gen 4's had lots of issues early on as well.

 

[RubenZ]

I'm sure they are but how reliable is reliable? Can I shoot 5k rounds in a few days without cleaning and without failure?

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You wouldn't get that reliability in 100% of the Glocks you try either.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I have never ever had an issue with my Sigs(P226 mk25, P938,M11-A1). In fact I sold off 4 different Glocks because I just can't stand the sight of them and their grip or lack of. Are they good, hell yes but the sigs Ive owned have been far better weapons. And Glocks of today aren't the Glocks of yesterday. Glocks gen 4's had lots of issues early on as well.

"Glocks of today aren't the Glocks of yesterday"

Care to elaborate?

So you bought and sold four Glock pistols before you realized you didn't like the grip?

Sounds like a true Sig fan boy. How dare we talk bad about Sigs.

 

[rwsmith]

That's not the corporate or even...

Guns don't work. Sig can't get em to work. Then can't replace the guns as scheduled. Curious why a lawsuit would be required rather then Sig voluntarily refunding and moving on...

That's not the corporate or even the American way. "So, sue us." is the more common attitude. What you say would be extremely honorable but if you want your money back you are going to have to take it out of their hide.

Also, the very worst I've heard of Sig is that they were great but an S&W would do the same thing cheaper. NOW, I'm hearing all kinds of "they are trash", "never buy another one" and "They haven't made a good gun since the '90's. No, wait, their guns were **** in the 80's." Where did all this come from. Have people been afraid to say that the emperor doesn't have any clothes on?

Thirdly, I'm surprised the 'home office' hasn't stepped in on this one and helped make it good. Are the German factories so booked up they can't help out here? (I realize that trade/manufacturing agreements might not allow this, but I guarantee that if American Honda was having this kind of trouble a planeload of Japanese executives would be here pronto).

 

[RubenZ]

"Glocks of today aren't the Glocks of yesterday"

Care to elaborate?

So you bought and sold four Glock pistols before you realized you didn't like the grip?

Sounds like a true Sig fan boy. How dare we talk bad about Sigs.

Not a fan boy, I just get what I like to shoot. In fact I've been a glock owner longer than a SIG owner. What I meant about older Glocks is that my gen 4's had more FTE's and other issues than my Gen 3's.

I wasn't bashing Glocks, in fact I said they were good weapons. I still may get a G20 again. I just after trying SiGs prefer to shoot them more and I'm more accurate with.

 

[Kanewpadle]

That's not the corporate or even the American way. "So, sue us." is the more common attitude. What you say would be extremely honorable but if you want your money back you are going to have to take it out of their hide.

Also, the very worst I've heard of Sig is that they were great but an S&W would do the same thing cheaper. NOW, I'm hearing all kinds of "they are trash", "never buy another one" and "They haven't made a good gun since the '90's. No, wait, their guns were **** in the 80's." Where did all this come from. Have people been afraid to say that the emperor doesn't have any clothes on?

Sigs are no better or worse than any other gun. As usual there is way too much over reaction before the facts come to light.

Sig has had problems with cracked slides but that was years ago. And Beretta had the same problem.

Stuff happens. How a company responds to and corrects the problems is the real test. We can only wait and see.

 

[RubenZ]

Also, just because the NJ police says they have issues doesn't mean Sigs are junk. With that same logic S&W is junk based in the below from years ago.

Texas DPS Ditches S&W M&P Handguns Over Reliability Issues - The Truth About Guns

 

[swsig]

Very simple to understand. You shot 5600 rounds in 3 years. OkHP probably did that per gun in a weekend



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Ah, that explains it. If a gun can't fire 5600 rounds in a weekend, it isn't much good for police use. I can understand that standard for military use, where troops may have to fire a lot of rounds in a short period of time. But if Oklahoma highway patrolmen ever need to fire at that rate, they (and us) will have bigger issues to deal with than SIG's quality control.

For a different reason, I'm surprised the P320 has ever been chosen for police work. Mine came with a fairly light out-of-the box trigger pull weight of 5.5 lbs. and only a drop safety, making NDs really easy to accomplish. I wonder if OK had in increase in NDs as a result. Now SIG has raised the trigger pull to 6.5 lbs., and is making thumb safety models for the military, and maybe law enforcement. This was probably forced on them by DOD requirements, but it should help with sales to LE agencies that previously steered away from the P320 due to its lack of even a Glock-style trigger safety.

As much as I like my P320 (it's a real joy to shoot as a .357 SIG), I do recognize its limitations. But for me, reliability hasn't been one of them.

 

[Arik]

What limitations? It works like every other gun ever made. DONT PUT YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER!

So since an offier may never even draw his gun the department standards for reliability should be much lower? It's only going to be in service for many years!

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[federali]

My Gun Is Better Than Your Gun.

These types of issues have occurred before. Generally, the police subject their proposed gun adoptions to vigorous testing well beyond what the average CCW will put his gun through. They push the guns to failure. In SIG's defense, they did win the military contract which, involves some vigorous testing.

Perhaps 20 years ago, the Kentucky State Police retired from use, a large batch of new Walther PPK/Ss because of functioning issues. Also, NYPD, for a time, barred their officers from using Kahrs.

Regarding Glock: yes, they're ugly, some people don't like the grip angle but the darned things tend to work every time. However, I had functioning issues with my new Glock 19 which went away when I substituted a home made steel spring guide for the plastic guide furnished with the gun.

 

[Breakaway500]

I had a new 320 (full size) in my hand the other day. Dirt brown,or whatever color they called it. Felt very nice..and had an out of the box excellent trigger.No safety nannies and great sights. I was very very tempted at $625 but could not do it. The last Sig I owned was a P220..and one of the most accurate autoloaders I have ever owned.

 

[Arik]

These types of issues have occurred before. Generally, the police subject their proposed gun adoptions to vigorous testing well beyond what the average CCW will put his gun through. They push the guns to failure. In SIG's defense, they did win the military contract which, involves some vigorous testing.

.

But they're two different guns thou. The 229 and the 320.



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[Arik]

You wouldn't get that reliability in 100% of the Glocks you try either.

Of course not. Nothing ever will be 100% that's a given. This is why you look at the track record overall. Sig Legacy guns have had major issues throughout the years. Mid 00 federal agencies were dumping Sigs in favor of other guns due to Sig's decision to save money and outsource parts as well as buy cheaper raw material. The former CEO tried to save a buck in every way possible. Once gov sales started to drop they focused on selling to civilians with the introduction of dozens of variations of each gun. At one time there was 30 variations of just the P226. And this doesn't include finish variations for each of those. They knew most civilians don't shoot nearly enough to have issues and those that do are a very small percentage. This is the same CEO who ran Kimber into the ground prior to his Sig position. After the new CEO came in, around 2010, quality slowly started to improve

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[Arik]

I have never ever had an issue with my Sigs(P226 mk25, P938,M11-A1). In fact I sold off 4 different Glocks because I just can't stand the sight of them and their grip or lack of. Are they good, hell yes but the sigs Ive owned have been far better weapons. And Glocks of today aren't the Glocks of yesterday. Glocks gen 4's had lots of issues early on as well.

No, Glock 9mm gen 4 had issues. And even that wasn't really a problem. The company redesigned the extractor and people were being pelted in the face and head with brass. Is that good? No, absolutely not, BUT.....the guns did work. They chambered, shot, extracted, ejected and loaded a new round.....just as it should be. I'll take being hit in the face with brass over a none functional gun.

Grips are something that cannot be measured. It's different for different people. However, there's a reason why Glocks grip is the way it is and it had to do with the Austrian military. Close your eyes and point your finger at something as if it was the barrel of a gun! If you can point your finger you can shoot straight if your​vision is compromised

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[ladder13]

Also, just because the NJ police says they have issues doesn't mean Sigs are junk. With that same logic S&W is junk based in the below from years ago.

Texas DPS Ditches S&W M&P Handguns Over Reliability Issues - The Truth About Guns

Yes, all guns have issues sometimes. there was a thread awhile back about the NCHP replacing their M&P's with Sigs due to the same sort of issues.
Some folks here used it as a platform to degrade the M&P platform in a gleeful tone.
No manufacturer is perfect.

 

[RubenZ]

Sig responds to allegations it provided New Jersey police defective handguns