SIG P320 Discharges?

I had 3 at one time and got rid of all of them even though I liked them very much.

I would not hire someone accused multiple times of rape, even if never convicted, to watch my family. Why? Because there are many many people out there with nothing like this hanging over their heads. If I hire them and they so much as look at someone sideways I will be brought into question as to why I would hire them to begin with.

Likewise, why would I carry something that has so many “accusations” of firing by themselves when there are so many other EXCELLENT choices out there? I don’t want to have to use it to defend myself or even for recreation, and then have to PROVE in some way that I really did intend to pull that trigger and not that it was all an accident that was my fault for choosing a gun with such a history? Surely, I was either negligent or deliberately acting against better judgement.

I can’t say I did not know about the accusations.

True or not, that scenario could happen. There are many ways this could happen but most of them do not have a simple solution to eliminate.

So…. One way to keep that particular problem from happening with a P320. Don’t have one.

Is that not just common sense? Yeah it would be a pity if none of these cases are legit, but whether they are or not, I know about it and there is no proof either way. So, why would any responsible common sense person CHOOSE to take that chance?.

It would be different if it was the only thing avaialble and my ability to remain free with the resources to care for my family are more important to me than SIG’s reputation.

Use you head. Make your own decision. Just don’t try to convince me I am wrong, because I am not.
 
All of the military versions have the manual safety, maybe that could make a difference
What a I have read is many of the accidental discharges were due to something depressing the trigger. Since no manual safety, I would only carry a p320 in a holster that completely covers the trigger and not carry in in a bag or pocket.
 
Damn! I'm on the Sig forum. This pops up all the time. Now it's on this forum. If you want to know about Smiths, be on this forum. Want to know about Colts, get on Colt forums. Want to know about Sigs...
 
What a I have read is many of the accidental discharges were due to something depressing the trigger. Since no manual safety, I would only carry a p320 in a holster that completely covers the trigger and not carry in in a bag or pocket.


There was a ND last week of a gun in its holster. The owner's hand was no where near it, according to the report.

I first thought it was horse manure when these reports came out. But after watching the video of that abomination of a firing pin assembly, I easily believe it.

Still love the hammer-fired models though.
 
It must be a really big rock the OP lives under to have missed this debate over the last couple of years.
 
This “going off by itself” thing is now in play in court in Jefferson County, Colorado. A teenager was shot in the face by a property owner after a trespassing incident. Lots of recent stories about the latest filings out there if one wants to search.
 
I seldom paid much attention to SIGs until a contract I was working in Mogadishu 'loaned' a couple of hundred M-11s (P229) to specialized units of the Somali Federal Police Force. The pistols were fine except 2 that were inoperable out of the box and were replaced.

I just noticed today that there is some controversy over the SIG P320 that has agencies divesting themselves of the sidearm - here's one example from a news report:

"Shortly after dark one day in September 2022, police officers Yang Lee and Charles Laskey-Castle arrived on Milwaukee’s west side to investigate a car abandoned on the sidewalk. Lee knelt to examine the driver’s side floorboard as Laskey-Castle stood behind him. Then Lee rose — and his holstered gun fired a bullet into his partner’s leg.

The shooting was captured on body camera footage, and it was at least the third time in three years that a Milwaukee officer’s SIG Sauer P320 pistol had allegedly fired without a trigger pull, according to lawsuits and police records. The following month, the Milwaukee Police Department moved to replace its P320s with weapons from another manufacturer."

Have I just been asleep? Anyone have factual info? To be clear, I don't intend to buy one, just curious.
Check the serial number with Sig Sauer - they will fix the issue no charge if your number is one of the ones with the issue.
 
No. They simply replaced the weapons as getting firearms into and out of Somalia takes over a year. We cut the nonfunctional weapons apart to BATFE standards and discarded the pieces at the vendor's direction.
 
The various problems with the P320 have been known since 2017. A couple of people I know and respect on LF first raised some of the issues back then. Sig's attitude is poor, at best. Man years ago, I ordered a 239 with certain features and it was so (messed) up that the dealer rejected it on receipt. That's a clue. I have another now and it seems fine.

I am not an engineer by a long shot, but my suspicion is that there is some kind of tolerance stacking within a poor design. Guns are a serious use issue and tolerating even a small number of hard/impossible to explain problems in a serious use firearm is simply not acceptable. There has been an on-going discussion among WA LE legal advisors about this, and frankly, what I saw was a collection of ignorant (the road to command rarely passes through the range or mat room) and butt hurt Chiefs who did not like being told they were Adam Frank Union in their choices. I am pretty sure that there ways to make Sig pay for replacements, along with other companies willing to step in at much reduced cost. I am in the process of retiring, so the legal issues are no longer mine,, but there is no way in hell I would ratify the use of that platform.

Interestingly, it is my understanding that the 365 does not reflect these issues. No idea why - remember I said I am not an engineer. FWIW, I have heard from other hard use folks that the Army lowered their testing standards to get the Sig instead of relying on the FBI's relatively stringent testing that resulted in buying the Gen 5 Glock. According to friends with military experience, the training and use of handguns outside of SOCOM and a few other places is borderline clown shoes. Handguns are relatively unimportant in military use, and as Lt. Col. Bolgiano said in a video I can no longer find, the only place that is institutionally more afraid of firearms than the military is Disney.

If I were staring to get into handguns today, I would likely go with the M&Ps. I am too heavily into Glocks to change now.
 
I've got 8 variations of the P320 and love them all. They shoot perfectly and NEVER had a problem with them, a couple are modified to my liking and all are very safe to carry. People foget about GLOCK-LEG with many AD's when they came out. Some people just upset Sig got the contract. Look at all the foreign countries using the P320 and you don't hear about AD's. To each his own. Remember... 1751737790747.png
 
I've got 8 variations of the P320 and love them all. They shoot perfectly and NEVER had a problem with them, a couple are modified to my liking and all are very safe to carry. People foget about GLOCK-LEG with many AD's when they came out. Some people just upset Sig got the contract. Look at all the foreign countries using the P320 and you don't hear about AD's. To each his own. Remember... View attachment 773311
You would be correct in the fact that people are pissed off that Sig got the contract.

The best gun did NOT win.

I hear nothing but complaints from the Army about their 320 problems.

And your Glock leg reference contradicts your entire post.
 
So?

Of course they are going to dispute the claims.

Even with documented proof on video!

Instead of admitting that there is a problem, they cover it up with misinformation and money.

This is why I will never buy any Sig product.

And Sig fanboys are just as guilty. So is the military. I've seen the internal documents. Nobody wants to tell the pentagon that they need to buy new guns to replace the 320.
 
I have studied this issue a lot since buying a P320 about a year ago before I was aware of the issue.

It is really perplexing in that without deliberately damaging internal parts, no one has been able to replicate an "uncommanded discharge" during testing. Sig, with guns that have had, per their operators, uncommanded discharges, has been unable to replicate this in exhaustive testing.

With the number of P320s out there, per a senior Sig engineer, the percentage of guns that per their operators have had uncommanded discharges is less than 0.01%.

So I continue to use my P320, with manual safety in my case, with confidence.

On the other hand, I also feel there is something going on that defies common sense and conventional wisdom. While a relatively small number, there are too many credible reports of uncommanded discharges for comfort.

I discount the emotional, absolutist takes I read, here and elsewhere, whether "Sig is hiding the problem and refusing to admit there is one!," or "The only possible explanation is operator error, poor handling skills!"

I continue to monitor, but, frankly, I think the issue will not be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Earlier today I did a little research (AKA asked ChatGPT) whether the controversy had affected sales of the P320. Answer is, essentially "No." The P320 remains one of the very best selling semii auto pistols is the US. (Second only to the Glock 17, IIRC, for a full size handgun.)

IMHO, FWIW.
 
The link was posted as information. There was no defense of Sig.

I ran the FA program at my SO for several years. In the early '90's I was tasked with investigation of Glock for a possible lawsuit of their product. There were examples of discharges from a PD in Oregon. I contacted the FTU of that agency and determined there was some fault by Glock. There was fault due to the agency protocols. At that time Glock sold pistols without mandating armorer training and transition training. The agency did not do the annual inspections and some of the practices were harmful to the pistols. Glock came to the agency trained armorers and provided Instructor Workshops for the staff. When Glock obtained contracts for guns they also mandated training to the agencies. The problems disappeared.

If you've been around for a while you might remember that HK contracted with NJ State Police issuing the P7 "Squeeze Cocker". They had numerous ND because the pistol wasn't "de-cocked" during re-holstering. Gun problem or training problem?

Anyone that ran a firearms program for an agency realizes that the majority of officers are not "gun folks". The serious shooters normally ended up being the instructors. Repetitive training using the Four Rules sometimes fixes the "least attentive" students.

Back to Sig. Regarding having "proof" of discharges on video, what is the proof? Can you see if the operator had a finger on the trigger? Some other object in the holster? A defective holster (Sherpa type). I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but we all want to know the cause-and the fix.

I have three P320's, all have been parked in my safe until more is known. Other friends, that are still in uniform are still carrying their P320's and have for years. They have not had any problems.

I've noted several agencies and training schools have prohibited use of the P320. My concern is what is the cause? Operator, equipment or the pistol. My hope is a solution can be found soon.

G2
 
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