Sig P320 spontaneous discharges?

[BE Mike]

Back in October of last year a friend of mine was shooting his 320 X5 during a ISSA match. He had just finished the 2nd round in the third stage and his hands were in the low surrender position when his pistol discharged while holstered. The round hit a knife in his pocket and deflected enough that it did not strike him. Tore his pants pocket and ruined the knife but no other injuries to himself or anybody else. I was right behind him when it happened along with another friend who was scoring and we both saw the incident so this isn't a second hand report.
When he called Sig, they wanted it back immediately and he sent it back. He found out that there have been more than a few cases of a discharge with the 320 series when they were holstered and the pistol wasn't being handled. His pistol was only a few months old, new enough that it was made after the recall for the supposed drop problem. The pistol was completely stock with no upgrades and he had about 1K through it at the time.
Sig offered to send him a new 320 X5 but he opted out and had them send him a 220 instead. He told me he just wasn't confident with the pistol after he found out about some of the other instances of unintentional discharges associated with the 320 series.
I don't think this is about trying to "get Sig", it's a real problem. I own several Sigs and have for many years and have always been impressed with their reliability and accuracy. After witnessing what happened that day with his 320 X5, I'd be hesitant to purchase or carry one of the 320 series.

Do you know if the pistol was stock or had it been modified?

 

[BE Mike]

I bought the M17 over a year ago at Bass Pro because I like to have a copy of the US military firearm. The gun has a thumb safety as required by the Army. I wonder if the thumb safety controls the AD problem.

I had a goofy experience with SIG concerning the removable plate on the slide that enables red dot sights to be mounted. I disassembled the gun preparatory to remove the plate. The screws(2) which secure the plate are only accessed from the underside of the slide. One screw is blocked by the extractor. I found no mention of this in the manual and emailed SIG. They agreed with me and said only a qualified gunsmith could do it for me. They also flatly refused to name even one gunsmith qualified. I sent it to Grayguns and paid them $50. to do it for me. I like the gun but will never buy another SIG.

Interesting. I have both a M17 and Sig P320X Compact. I mounted a Sig Romeo Pro red dot on the Compact and found it to be very easy. Since you didn't feel comfortable mounting your optic, you did the right thing.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Interesting. I have both a M17 and Sig P320X Compact. I mounted a Sig Romeo Pro red dot on the Compact and found it to be very easy. Since you didn't feel comfortable mounting your optic, you did the right thing.

My problem was the screw head was covered by the extractor. I had zero experience removing M17 extractors.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Do you know if the pistol was stock or had it been modified?

He said in the post that the gun was stock.

His pistol was only a few months old, new enough that it was made after the recall for the supposed drop problem. The pistol was completely stock with no upgrades and he had about 1K through it at the time.

 

[ancient-one]

I bought a Sig Factory Reworked P320 Compact when CDNN was selling them. Sig has a place on the computer to check if your gun has been modified by typing in the SN. I did that soon after I got the gun and it was modified.

After seeing this post I did a recheck and read a little farther down and found instructions on how to visually check. You can easily see if it is modified with the disconnect notch or if it isn't. The thinner trigger is the first thing to look for.

I have done everything I could think of doing except dropping it(unloaded) on the concrete and I can get nothing to happen. I don't know what the pull weight on the trigger is but it is not light as stated in someones earlier post.
The way things are going a 15 round compact pistol may come in handy. I will keep it.

 

[cowboy325]

Regardless of what is posted in the petition, its all speculation until the facts are presented in the case. Any conclusion at this point is pure speculation. Even what is posted in a "article" is not fact but biased to one side or the other. Seems like the new Court of Law is the media, YouTube, and public gun forums.

 

[ancient-one]

After I left the computer, this post was still bugging me. I remembered that I had an old hand held Oster vibrator, the kind that goes on the back of your hand with the coiled wires over your palm and they do vibrate. I hooked it up, racked the slide on my P320 Compact, put a worn out wash rag between the gun and the wire coils and held the gun in every possible position. I let the vibrator shake it for five minutes and no problem showed up. I pulled the trigger then worked the slide and pulled the trigger again. I could tell no difference in the trigger pull. I really feel that it is OK.
I do not like the no safety so will usually not have one in the chamber. I have been practicing working the slide as I am getting into the shooting position. Works out pretty good, a little slower but I am not fast as I was forty years ago at anything. You still wouldn't want me shooting at you.

 

[Echo40]

This reminds me of the lawsuit filed against Taurus some years back, in which shaking the Taurus Millennium PT111 pistol with the trigger held back in the rearward possition after the firearm had already been shot and the safety was engaged would cause the gun to fire.
Many folks have pointed out just how unusual it would be to encounter this issue in the wild, not to mention questioned just how likely such a thing is to result in personal injury, and some folks who owned the PT111 have tried to replicate this issue to no avail, yet it still went to court and it still succeeded.

I'm sure that folks here will also remember when Smith & Wesson had to issue a mass recall on their licensed run of the Walther PPK(/S) which could occasionally discharge if the hammer was decocked with a live round in the chamber. Much like the Taurus Millennium PT111, this was not an issue that applied to all PPK(/S) Models manufactured by S&W, as some folks put their pre-recall PPK(/S) to the test by decocking the hammer with a live round in the chamber without any issue, yet the entire run of S&W PPK(/S) manufactured between 2003 and 2009 were recalled over it.

Unfortunately, in the information era in which all it takes is one video going viral to convince the lowest common denominator that the information presented in the video is truthful, even without any proof to back it up, it's easy for a company or even an individual's reputation to be harmed by it, and they have to take immediate action to address the issue, lest someone get the idea to sue over it. There's no time for the company to investigate or confirm that the issue factually exists, they have to act immediately before Dewy Crowe watches that video gets the bright idea to literally shoot himself in the foot and attempt to sue them for millions of dollars.

 

[Telecaster]

Sig Talk has pretty much the exact same thread as this one. No new insight yet. I'd sure like to know what kind of "vibration" it was.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Regardless of what is posted in the petition, its all speculation until the facts are presented in the case. Any conclusion at this point is pure speculation. Even what is posted in a "article" is not fact but biased to one side or the other. Seems like the new Court of Law is the media, YouTube, and public gun forums.

Agree with you regarding what is stated in an article which is why I read the entire petition totally disregarding the screed contained in an article. Agree that you have to put up or shut up in court. But the petition I read was fact pleading at it's best as opposed to mere notice pleading. A knowledge of Rule 11 and the fear it imposes amongst lawyers still leads me to the inescapable conclusion that the lawyer who filed the petition has done his homework and is ready to prove what is contained in the petition over his signature. If that happens SIG is in a world of trouble. Did you read the entire petition???? Wasn't clear from your post.

 

[BE Mike]

My problem was the screw head was covered by the extractor. I had zero experience removing M17 extractors.

I also think that removing the extractor on a P320 is a real cinch. Push in the plunger, slide out the retention plate and take out the spring and two part extractor. Still, if one isn't comfortable doing these things, it is better to have a Sig armorer do them.

 

[sigp220.45]

Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.

 

[Papa32129]

Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.

Excuse me for maybe pointing out my lack of knowledge but was your Sig p320 sent in for the upgrade? Or voluntary recall?
My p320 had a narrow blade trigger installed from the factory recall.


Papa

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.

Gotta take care of Big Jim and the twins!!!

 

[sigp220.45]

Excuse me for maybe pointing out my lack of knowledge but was your Sig p320 sent in for the upgrade? Or voluntary recall?
My p320 had a narrow blade trigger installed from the factory recall.


Papa

Yep. The picture is from before I sent it in.

 

[Mainsail]

Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.

Yeah, I guess I'll stand by to stand by. Swapped over to my Legion P229 in .357, and if I need thinner I have my P239 in the same caliber. The P320 is unloaded and in the safe until they sort this out. Sad because I LOVE the P320.

 

[okiegtrider]

The plot thickens with another P320 AD yesterday in Milwaukee.
MPD gun manufacturer linked to lawsuits over unintended shootings

 

[BE Mike]

The plot thickens with another P320 AD yesterday in Milwaukee.
MPD gun manufacturer linked to lawsuits over unintended shootings

Well, it must be true, it was on the news on a local tv station. 8^) So much these days are settled by public opinion before all the facts are in.

 

[okiegtrider]

Whether or not it should, this story interests me. I reached out yesterday to a cop I know, large state agency, p320 is their issue weapon. I ask him if he's seen this latest flap over the the 320. He says he has not. So I run it down to him a little, the lawsuit, the latest AD in the news.

First thing he says?

We had one go off in the holster too!

 

[pasote]

your m17 has a safety

I have two P320s (“M17” versions), both of which were manufactured after the voluntary recall thing. I always try to take note of things other shooters say about firearms I am interested in, but unless I see the evidence myself the reports are not stored in the “firsthand-knowledge database.”

Based on what I know, I am not concerned about MY P320s. I feel like I can depend on them, unless they do something that indicates otherwise. So far, nothing like that observed.

I have a P320 that underwent the voluntary recall but still i dont think i would carry it with a round in the chamber. I wish I had the M17 with the army mandated manual safety. With the manual safety engaged, then I would feel comfortable with a round in the chamber. Not as safe as with my beretta 92fs with a round in the chamber and the hammer lowered on a chambered round with the safety on. Now that is safe!