Sight install gone horribly wrong - Don't let this be you

[BMCM]

Ahoy there Gents,

Think of this as a cautionary tale for those who may be new to these guns and/or contemplating some home gunsmithing.

So I got this gem in the mail today... The owner tried to install an XS big dot and well...

Brace yourselves, it aint pretty!

It appears we were attempting to drive the sight on from left to right 'till it bound up and the blade snapped clean off.

Not level with the bottom of the dovetail cut either, looks like about 5° or 6° of up bubble on the far left here. Definitely no good.

I see a chunk of displaced metal here too. I'm not sure if this is from the slide or was peeled off the sight base by the slide due to the "up bubble" issue in the previous pic. We'll see when I get that broken base out.

So, what next? Well I got the thing soaking in Kroil right now. Actually that's the first thing I did upon unpacking the thing...slather it with Kroil I was going the try bangin' on it myself but upon closer examination thought.. Uhh Nope!

Since I have to re-mount & tram in the vise on the mill for some other work, I decided I'll just clamp this in the vise and use a small carbide end mill to cut the base out of there. I could simply split it with a hack saw but I feel there less risk of further damage to the slide using the mill instead. I can lower the cutter to just 0.001 off the bottom of the dovetail cut then traverse the "X" right through the base with no risk of ever touching the slide with the cutter.

So, few pertinent notes....

Aftermarket sight dovetails are always oversized and sights will always require some degree of hand fitting to install.

Hand fitting involves filing the flat bottom of the sight base only. File a little then test fit. Repeat this until the sight will enter the cut 1/3 to 1/2 the way in with hand pressure only. Once you get to this point you can drive it home. Be patient, it may take a couple hours to get it right. What you don't want is to file too much off the base and wind up with a loose fit. And of course you don't want and overly tight fit either winding up with damage like we see above or worse yet break the front of the slide's dovetail off.

Factory sight can often be brute forced in. Even so I still prefer to hand fit.

As a rule you don't file on the slide dovetail cuts to fit sights. All hand fitting is done by filing on the sight base only. And then only on the flat bottom and never on the angled sides.

Specific to 3rd gens... sights always go on from the right and come off from the right.

Other guns with dovetail sights... Sight should be driven off from the same side they were installed. ie sight was driven on from right to left it must be driven off from left to right removing it from the same side it was installed from.

I'll update this sometime tomorrow. After I get the mill set up and this broken base cut out we'll see what kind of damage (if any) we have to deal with before installing the new front.

Cheers
Bill

 

[bigchuck83]

That right there is why i have never attempted a sight installation myself. I know i would screw it up so i would rather pay a gunsmith to do the job. Hopefully you don't have too much trouble replacing that front sight.

 

[epj]

Ahoy there Gents,

Think of this as a cautionary tale for those who may be new to these guns and/or contemplating some home gunsmithing.

So I got this gem in the mail today... The owner tried to install an XS big dot and well...

Brace yourselves, it aint pretty!

It appears we were attempting to drive the sight on from left to right 'till it bound up and the blade snapped clean off.

Not level with the bottom of the dovetail cut either, looks like about 5° or 6° of up bubble on the far left here. Definitely no good.

I see a chunk of displaced metal here too. I'm not sure if this is from the slide or was peeled off the sight base by the slide due to the "up bubble" issue in the previous pic. We'll see when I get that broken base out.

So, what next? Well I got the thing soaking in Kroil right now. Actually that's the first thing I did upon unpacking the thing...slather it with Kroil I was going the try bangin' on it myself but upon closer examination thought.. Uhh Nope!

Since I have to re-mount & tram in the vise on the mill for some other work, I decided I'll just clamp this in the vise and use a small carbide end mill to cut the base out of there. I could simply split it with a hack saw but I feel there less risk of further damage to the slide using the mill instead. I can lower the cutter to just 0.001 off the bottom of the dovetail cut then traverse the "X" right through the base with no risk of ever touching the slide with the cutter.

So, few pertinent notes....

Aftermarket sight dovetails are always oversized and sights will always require some degree of hand fitting to install.

Hand fitting involves filing the flat bottom of the sight base only. File a little then test fit. Repeat this until the sight will enter the cut 1/3 to 1/2 the way in with hand pressure only. Once you get to this point you can drive it home. Be patient, it may take a couple hours to get it right. What you don't want is to file too much off the base and wind up with a loose fit. And of course you don't want and overly tight fit either winding up with damage like we see above or worse yet break the front of the slide's dovetail off.

Factory sight can often be brute forced in. Even so I still prefer to hand fit.

As a rule you don't file on the slide dovetail cuts to fit sights. All hand fitting is done by filing on the sight base only. And then only on the flat bottom and never on the angled sides.

Specific to 3rd gens... sights always go on from the right and come off from the right.

Other guns with dovetail sights... Sight should be driven off from the same side they were installed. ie sight was driven on from right to left it must be driven off from left to right removing it from the same side it was installed from.

I'll update this sometime tomorrow. After I get the mill set up and this broken base cut out we'll see what kind of damage (if any) we have to deal with before installing the new front.

Cheers
Bill

A huge +1 on properly fitting sights prior to installation. They need to be tight enough to stay put, but don't need to be a crush fit. After all, you may want to replace or move the sight some day.

 

[Whitwabit]

That's the worst one I have seen in over 45 years of shooting .. the person should have quit long before it was looking like that .. very evident he didn't have the right tools or the even the knowledge to accomplish the feat of changing sights ..

I take mine to the gun smith who has the right tools to do the proper job ..

hope you'll show pictures of what you will have to do to put sights on this .. and then the finished job .. hope they are paying you well !!

 

[BMCM]

Please, lets be civil here Gents.

I assure you the kindly gentleman who owns this piece is sufficiently contrite over this mishap and doesn't need any further beatdown. I'm told he did have a sight pusher and has experience installing sight on his other guns. The main error here is failure to perform the hand fitting step which was compounded by trying to force the oversize base in. Once it broke, failed attempts to knock the thing out only made it worse.

The owner is also a member here. I asked for and received his permission to post this thread. The goal here is not the beat the guy up any further but to share some gunfu wisdom and hopefully help others to avoid a similar mishap.

Cheers
Bill

 

[0849]

Thank You for Sharing

Please, lets be civil here Gents.

I assure you the kindly gentleman who own this piece is sufficiently contrite over this mishap and doesn't need any further beatdown. I'm told he did have a sight pusher and has experience installing sight on his other guns. The main error here is failure to perform the hand fitting step which was compounded by trying to force the oversize base in. Once it broke, failed attempts to knock the thing out only made it worse.

The owner is also a member here. I asked for and received his permission to post this thread. The goal here is not the beat the guy up any further but to share some gunfu wisdom and hopefully help others to avoid a similar mishap.

Cheers
Bill

What BMCM stated is worth repeating.

We all make mistakes, not too many of us are perfect human beings that do everything correctly all the time. I would like to thank whoever - whomever? let the grammar beatings commence gave permission to BMCM to post the mishap. I thought this was one of the good things about the forum was being able to share information without fear of a beat down, as that is just uncalled for, unproductive, and just not needed, as when one of us makes a mistake, we typically know we made a mistake and do not need further criticism. What IS needed is helpful advice, and to extend thanks to the original person that had the problem for sharing the info in the interest of perhaps keeping another forum member from traversing into a similar minefield.

 

[Whitwabit]

My comment in no way was way meant to beat down the owner .. But I do stand by it .. Just because you have a sight pusher doesn't mean its the proper one for the sight your doing and you yourself inferred lack of proper knowledge by not first hand fitting the sights ..

 

[OKFC05]

All sights MUST be fit to the sight slot before installation.
Installing Dovetail Front Sights with Dave Dawson - Bing video

 

[shawn mccarver]

I have noted before that S&W installs its dovetail front and rear sights with a hydraulic press. I have seen video of it.

What most owners do not understand is that removal and replacing of an S&W sight is NOT at all like using a sight adjustment tool to install or replace the Glock polymer rear sight, which can be installed even with a tight fit due to the polymer construction.

Given the life of the pistol, i.e. the same length as my life, I long ago decided that the best way to install different sights on an S&W is to overnight the pistol to S&W and let them do it. Expensive by the time you pay for the sight and shipping? Yes. But the satisfaction that it is done right and will be a reliable installation is worth it to me.

Just my two cents worth.

PS - Lest anyone accuse me of bashing the unlucky guy to whom this happened, that is not at all the case. I am merely suggesting that the factory is a perfectly acceptable option to have sights installed. To be honest, I do not trust most "gunsmiths" out there these days. No offense to the OP, who obviously knows what he is doing, but these days it seems that everyone with an "armorer's certificate" and a few tools from Brownells or Harbor Freight claims to be a "gunsmith," and it is hard to know who is reliable, and even when you find one on here, you may still have to ship your pistol, and if you have to do that, why not ship to the factory?

 

[JohnHL]

That little tidbit about aftermarket sights being oversized cannot be repeated enough.
I recently replaced the plastic rear sights on a pair on Chiefs Special slides.
The plastic sights drove out like butter, but the Meprolights would barely insert into the dovetail.
About 20 minutes each of sliding the sight bottoms across the file before they would go in.
I had a pretty fair little pile of metal shavings when I got through, so the manufacturer was compensating for some loose (or bubba-ed) dovetails.

Of course I always save the filings in case I change my mind or the sights loosen up.

John

 

[vigil617]

Master Chief, you had me going there when I read the title of the thread. I feared you were fixin' to relate a tale of something that had happened to you, so I was relieved to see that this is what it is. Frankly, with everything that's going on in the world these days, I don't think I could have taken another "feet of clay" moment this morning!

Victory snatched from the jaws of defeat, and all that....

 

[Arik]

That right there is why i have never attempted a sight installation myself. I know i would screw it up so i would rather pay a gunsmith to do the job. Hopefully you don't have too much trouble replacing that front sight.

Same here. Why I don't do my own gunsmith work

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[TTSH]

The owner is also a member here. I asked for and received his permission to post this thread. The goal here is not the beat the guy up any further but to share some gunfu wisdom and hopefully help others to avoid a similar mishap.

Okay, I confess. The owner is me. Well, maybe not, but it very easily could have been me. So I am here to learn, never to bash or criticize. And I have total faith that Brother BMCM will have that gun back to better than new condition in very short order.

Stay tuned folks.

 

[dben002]

 

[rwt1405]

Okay, I confess. The owner is me. Well, maybe not, but it very easily could have been me. So I am here to learn, never to bash or criticize. And I have total faith that Brother BMCM will have that gun back to better than new condition in very short order.

Stay tuned folks.

I agree TTSH, and thank you to the owner for allowing this to be posted and allowing us (or at least me) to learn from it.

As a good friend (and partner) of mine likes to say, "We learn so much more from what we do wrong, then we will ever learn from what we do right", truer words have NEVER been spoken!

 

[MWater]

Well, as long as we're posting embarrassing sight installation photos:

I didn't have to force it or anything. Just tapped it on, looked at it, and immediately said, "son of a..". This was a new OEM sight and went on (and off and on) fairly smoothly.

 

[Inusuit]

Well, as long as we're posting embarrassing sight installation photos:

I didn't have to force it or anything. Just tapped it on, looked at it, and immediately said, "son of a..". This was a new OEM sight and went on (and off and on) fairly smoothly.

Interesting! I haven't made that exact mistake, but many similar ones over 50 years of tinkering with firearms. Fortunately, there are no pictures of my blunders.

 

[petepeterson]

Same here. Why I don't do my own gunsmith work

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Someone with an identical screen name as mine may have attempted to (only) move, not even install, a front sight on my 3914. Fortunately, the cosmetic damage can be masked with a Sharpie! That girl is definitely "shooter-grade", so I wasn't too upset, but it did reinforce my belief that the heavy-lifting should be done by people smarter than me. I would've been more upset if that was my pristine 3913.

 

[824tsv]

BMCM,
What is the pistol you are repairing?

 

[apollo99]

"He who is without sin cast the first stone", I have so many mess ups under my belt, I don't even go near the rock pile, I had a pond next to my barn/workshop, the bottom of that said pond was littered with my boo boos thrown in in a moment of frustration. Not so much gun related articles, but I'm just saying my delicate mechanical skill could use some fine tuning.I'm sure if I attempted a sight switchout on a slide, it would probably be worst than the one in question, and probably be sitting on the bottom of a pond out here in Arizona.