sighting in a bolt action .223

CAJUNLAWYER

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Have a Firedot version of the VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20mm AR Riflescope by Leupold with 30mm tube that I picked up used for a song. I am putting it on a bolt action Ruger Hawkeye in .223. I will be trying again to sight it in shortly and have been reading all kinds of stuff on the web about 36 yard range, 50 yard range sighting in, but it all deals with the AR platform. Can this scope be used on a non AR platform? I think the reason I got it so cheap is because the elevation is somehow locked and I cannot adjust it enough to get it to a zero elevation at 25 yards so I can at least have it on paper at 50 yards and 100 yards. It appears that there is a tiny allen screw on the elevation turret that I could loosen to get more elevation movement but before I go to mucking around with it, I thought I would discuss it with the brain trust first to see what y'all come up with. Scope didn't have any instructions with it when I got it
 
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I know zilch about that scope so I cannot offer any advice on what it does or doesn't do. I've mounted lots of rifle scopes however...

Bolt guns are fantastic because you can easily bore sight them. I don't mean the rinky dink laser thingys that some people stuff in the muzzle.

For me, it's really as simple as having the rifle mounted in a rest inside the house and looking out a window. Best to have it -NOWHERE- near the window so nobody thinks you are setting up a sniper's den.

Find some immobile item in the distance and the more distance, the better. It needs to be an item that's extremely easy to pick up with the naked eye. A lit lightbulb on a porch or garage is a fantastic example. I've successfully used roof vents because they stand out from their background.

If you can see it through the bore and then line up the scope crosshairs on it, it's almost astonishing how close you will be on paper. Recently I mounted a fantastic new optic on my rifle and was within 3-1/2 inches at 100 yards on paper.
 
Most likely there’s nothing wrong with your scope. I am not familiar with that exact model but I had a similar problem with a VX5. “When all else fails, read the instructions” - right? If you can’t find anything online, call Leupold - or send me a PM and I will email instructions from my VX5. I’ll bet your scope works exactly the same. That scope will work fine on your rifle with normal mounts/rings.
 
Spoke with them and they said they will re-gas and check the
2.5-8x32mm scope for our 460, that was purchased from a North Floridian and is nice.
Previous owner said he never used it but removed the plastic screw.
Two rings did not keep it in place and best get it done before mounting it with 1 or 2 more.

Looking to have fun enlarging small bullet holes, at 50 yds,
with the scoped 460.
Maybe 100yds? ;)

Speaking of great deals on a defective item....
boating client bought a Turbo Rolls because the owner and his mechanic couldn't get the engine to run right.
During their frustration he offered them cash.
The yachtsman and his mechanic just wired the spark plugs correctly and problem solved.
Funny guy but who knows.
He looked exactly like Robert Conrad and it took a bit to convince me he wasn't.
 
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Try to find the manual. There is a chance that Allen screw takes the cap off and there will be some sort of zero stop that can be adjusted so you have a little more room.
 
When folks talk about a 36 or 50 yard zero with an AR, it's because of the utility of that zero distance in a combat gun. These particular distances work out because of the mechanical offset between the bore line and sight line on an AR and the ballistic path of the 5.56 at the velocities achieved in an AR. We use a 50 yard zero, because that distance gives a 'second' zero at ~200 yards. The bullet is on it's way up at the first intersection with the sight line, and going down at the second. From muzzle to 200 yards, a 50 yard zero gives a point of impact within about a 4" vertical spread from the same point of aim. No thinking about drops, just point and shoot from zero to 200+ and get a center mass hit.

556-battle-sight-193.jpg


For a bolt gun, the mechanical offset will be smaller, so the ballistic path will be different. I would probably just do a 100 yard zero with a bolt gun.
 
Check with Leupold on how the scope works. It's possible that particular model allows you to lock the adjustments once you've got them where you want them.

With a bolt gun, you can bore sight it easily. Get a good size cardboard box and cut V notches to support the gun so it's level. Visually center something (electric meter, can lid nailed to a tree, etc in the bore while looking from the breech end and then tweak the adjustments till you have them somewhere close. Then test fire at 25 yards and correct as necessary.

My personal bolt gun has an established zero at 200 yards with a certain bullet/load, but I've got target turrets and can twiddle for the trajectories of different bullets. A 50 yard zero will have you at least close at 200.
 
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I'm probably going to get yelled at and told to hand in my man card, but have you read the manual available under the "Product Download" button on the Leupold website?

VX-Freedom AR 1.5-4x20 AR-Ballistic | Leupold

https://www.leupold.com/media/manuals/general_riflescope_owner_manual_18x12_French.pdf

Ignore the French bit, it is in English.

This is on the front page.

Uses a 200 yard zero with aiming points out to 600 yards
Seems like a plan for .223 or 5.56 NATO. Mind you, I've seen rifles zeroed like that bring out the red mist from the 100 yard zero or nothing brigade. Me zeroing my 30 cal or similar milsurps at 300 yard puts them in orbit.
 
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OK, Leupold has changed their product lineup several times, but I don't see anything current in the VX Freedom line 1.5-4 variable with a 30 mm tube. It could be that you have either another product line or an item that's no longer in production. I think the Fire-Dot thing was phased out.

The VX-3 line does have locking adjustments.
 
I usually just bench rest the rifle, sight down the bore and adjust the scope to the target that I see in the bore. You can't move the rifle when you do this so sand bags fore and aft are important. 50 yd target will work.

Once you have what looks like a matching POA, bore and scope, then it's time to burn some powder. You should be on paper at 50 yds. Start adjusting the POA and POI using bullet impact. You can probably do that in ten shots unless your scope needs repair.

Bonne chance
 
Ne th

Two separate issues I’ll comment on:

Lostintheozone is spot on. With a bolt action you can remove the bolt and then sight on a small bullseye target at 25-50 yards. Just make sure the bull is centered in the open end of the muzzle and that you have equal amount of bore visible all the way around the open end of the barrel. With the rifle supported so it won’t move, adjust the reticle to center on the bullseye. You may have to go back and forth and rinse and repeat a few times as a little moment often happens with large adjustments.

Once it looks good take a shot. It’ll probably be a few inches low, but should be on the paper and pretty well centered in windage.

Now, hold the rifle very steady on the front rest and rear bag so that the cross hair rests on the center of the bullseye. Then without disturbing the rifle, adjust the cross hairs so that they move over to the hole in the target. You are just moving the point of aim to the actual point of impact.

Take another shot. It should be very close to center of bullseye. Make a click or two of adjustment if needed.

Then fire a 3-5 shot group to confirm the short “zero” , but then confirm it at the actual long range “zero.

——

If you have a ballistic app and have a pretty good idea of your actual velocity, you can go ahead and adjust the elevation to zero the rifle at what ever short range you have available.

But the ballistics and the sight height matter.

For example, I have a scoped Mini 14 and feed it Hornady 55 gr FMJBT bullets loaded to 3000 fps. The distance from the center of the bore to the center of the Luepold 2-7x33 scope is 1.7”.

The Creedmoor reticle in the scope is designed for a 100 yard zero, with two 1 MOA dots that are 2.2 MOA and 4.8 MOA, with a picket 8 MOA below the reticle. That then works out to a 100 yard zero and hold points at the dots for 225 yards and 325 yards, as well as 400 yards at the pointy end of the picket. It’s not a bad setup for a 1.5 MOA accurate mini 14, it’s easy to remember the ranges for the dots and picket, and it’s easy to extrapolate between the dots and picket.

To get a 100 yard zero with that sight height and load, it will be .9” low at 25 yards and .3” low at 50 yards, and I can do that if I am at an indoor range and don’t have access to a 100 yard range - but I would want to use as long a range as possible, and be very precise with the zero - shooting tiny groups, knowing exactly where the center of the group is, and adjusting the scope so the group is centered exactly where I need it to be at 25 or 50 yards.

——

Similarly, I have another Mini 14 with iron sights and a sight height of 1.2”. Since the sights are not readily adjustable, I zero it for 275 yards. That gives me a +/-5” point blank range of 325 yards. In other words, the maximum mid range trajectory is +5” (and happens at 150 yards, while it is 5” low at 325 yards. That lets me hold dead on out to 325 yards and keep the point of impact 5” or less from the point of aim. A 400 yard shot is 18” low, or basically hold top of the head on an IPSC head and torso plate).

But given the lower sight height, it’s 0.5” high at 25 yards, 2.0” high at 50 yards and 4.1” high at 100 yards.

That 4.1” high at 100 yards is handy as I can take a 100 yard small bore target with its 8” diameter bullseye and use a 6 o’clock hold. With the thinnest possible gap between front sight snd bullseye that 4.1” high should result in a group centered in the 10 ring.

——

100 yards out is also far enough down range to give me a high degree of confidence in the 275 yard zero. A 25 or 50 yard zero does not, as even a 1/8” error at 25 yards will result in the 275 yard zero being 1 3/8” off at 275 yards. A 1/4” error at 25 yards results in a 2 3/4” error at 275 yards.

In short, the distance you choose for a zero will depend on:

- the ballistics of your actual velocity and the BC of the bullet;
- the sight height of your rifle and sight;
- the reticle in your scope; and
- your intended use.

You have to consider all of it as a system.


2F8FA49A-21CE-4C55-9ED4-7DB73DE70C28_zpslpwwg3ui.jpg
 
When folks talk about a 36 or 50 yard zero with an AR, it's because of the utility of that zero distance in a combat gun. These particular distances work out because of the mechanical offset between the bore line and sight line on an AR and the ballistic path of the 5.56 at the velocities achieved in an AR. We use a 50 yard zero, because that distance gives a 'second' zero at ~200 yards. The bullet is on it's way up at the first intersection with the sight line, and going down at the second. From muzzle to 200 yards, a 50 yard zero gives a point of impact within about a 4" vertical spread from the same point of aim. No thinking about drops, just point and shoot from zero to 200+ and get a center mass hit.

556-battle-sight-193.jpg


For a bolt gun, the mechanical offset will be smaller, so the ballistic path will be different. I would probably just do a 100 yard zero with a bolt gun.

Agreed. Sight height matters and can make a big difference.

IIRC the sight height on an M16A1, M16A2 or M4 is 2.5”

A “near” 36 yard (33m) zero with M193 or something similar results in a “far” zero of 300 yards (275m) with the slightly faster (3250 fps) 20” barrel. That leaves you about 2” high at 75 yards, 3” high at 100 yards, and a maximum of 4 1/2” high at 175 yards. You’re 5” low at 350 yards (320m) and 12” low at 400 yards (370m).

With the 16” barrel and 3100 fps, the far zero ends up being 280 yards, not 300, and you are 5” low at 330 yards not 350, and you are 16” low at 400, not 12”.

——

Where the mall ninjas get it wrong is in thinking a 36 yard zero is all they need to be good to go for the zombie apocalypse. That thinking is flawed for two reasons:

First, a small error in zero at 36 yards scales up to a significant error at 300 yards. If their group center is 1/4” off at 36 yards it’s 2” off at 300 yards. On a small target that makes a significant difference. On a large target, not so much. But these are zombies, you have to hit ‘em in the brain.

A three shot zero also has a greater probability of getting three shots that are well above or below the actual average velocity and even if they calculate the group center precisely, it can still be wrong.


Second, that 36/300 zero is based on an assumption that the bullet’s BC and muzzle velocity are what you think they are. If the BC is low the bullet will lose more velocity and hit lower. Similarly, if the muzzle velocity is lower than you think it is, the bullet will drop more. If both of those errors stack, it will hit a lot lower.

And of course if your 36 yard zero is 1/4” lower than it was supposed to be *and* you have a bullet with a slightly lower BC, *and* you are getting a lower average velocity than you think from your rifle, those stacked errors can clause you to be several inches to a foot low at 300 yards. Mr. Mall Ninja has suddenly missed the entire head.

Shooters really need to confirm that long range zero, or at least confirm they are actually 3” high at 100 yards.
 
As AbbyNormal said........just zero at 25 yards.

Jack O'Connor told us this about 60 years ago.

It still works.

Then fine tune at 100 yards.

If your scope is faulty Leupold will fix it free.

You really have no worries.

Carry on.
 
As AbbyNormal said........just zero at 25 yards.

Jack O'Connor told us this about 60 years ago.

It still works.

Then fine tune at 100 yards.

If your scope is faulty Leupold will fix it free.

You really have no worries.

Carry on.
That is pretty much correct. For a typical .223 load, a 25-30 yard zero equals a 200 yard zero if the line of sight is about 1.5” above the bore center line, and you essentially have a 250 yard point blank range for any target having a diameter of 3” or smaller. Of course the numbers will change somewhat with different loads and how tight a group the rifle and load combination is capable of producing.
 
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