Sigma and PD Qualification

[jtpur]

I sucked up the cost of having to pay 25 bucks each way to check my baggage, loaded my Sigma in my carry case, 100 rounds of ammo and headed to Florida to qualify at my Old Department. I have been practicing but had no idea how the course had changed. First thing I noted was that the target a B21-E is much smaller than what I had been shooting at.

The only real headace was the draw and shoot two in two seconds as the target turned. It was a relatively easy course but different than when I was on active duty. I scored 38/40 and qualified. I noted that my shots were low and left and I came to the conclusion that it was the difference in the shillouetes I had been using. I bought a 100 of the "official targets......funny my shooting is improving...botton line is the Sigma was flawless and I expected the range master to bad mouth it but he thought it was an ok gun.....me too...I am now legal in all 50 states...

 

[leejack]

Congratulations! Great job!

Here's the part we already knew

botton line is the Sigma was flawless

Lee

 

[DWinter]

Are you kidding me, all the critics and other sorts of "experts" know the sigma isn't worth poop. ;-)

Let'em believe it, I say. An educated few of us know the truth. When I meet one of "those guys" I usually act dumb especially when the individual thinks he's schooling me. None of us know it all and that certainly this applies to me. I'll then try to
end the conversation quicky and politely (acting like I valued his opinion and somtimes on certain points I may) and pop few rounds into in the ten ring. You know what they say, actions speak louder than words.

BTW, nice score.

 

[leejack]

Recently, a local rangemaster stopped behind my table while my daughter was chewing the center of the target at 7 yards with el sigma.

His eyes were wide open, he shook his head, winked at me and walked on. I'm sure she had the best target on the seven yard line at the time.

Hey, trained by Ol' Lee; what can I say! LOL!

One more thing; while we were there I saw him clear a couple of jams for some nice fellows with more expensive guns that our lowley sigma.

Lee

 

[shawn mccarver]

If you like the SIGMA (and I do, despite its too heavy trigger pull), you will love the new SD series and the M&P.

 

[.357 mag]

Are you kidding me, all the critics and other sorts of "experts" know the sigma isn't worth poop. ;-)

Let'em believe it, I say. An educated few of us know the truth. When I meet one of "those guys" I usually act dumb especially when the individual thinks he's schooling me. None of us know it all and that certainly this applies to me. I'll then try to
end the conversation quicky and politely (acting like I valued his opinion and somtimes on certain points I may) and pop few rounds into in the ten ring. You know what they say, actions speak louder than words.



BTW, nice score.

Good stuff!! The sigma and I have fun with this. Caldwell Plink N' Swing Swinging Target Twin-Spin 45 Caliber Steel Black - MidwayUSA Out to 30 yards mind you! I impress myself even sometimes.

 

[AJW]

I carried a Sigma 40F as my duty gun for several years. When we finally retired them, I bought mine and it serves as my home defense gun. Never had an issue or a concern.

 

[mlk18]

I remember when qualification meant standing at a measured point and shooting a certain number of rounds. No time limits, very casual reloads, no malfunction drills, no movement, no alternate positions, no non-dominant hand shooting, no shooting from cover, no shooting from a vehicle, etc., etc., etc. In those days if you didn't shoot 98% or better you were picked on and sent out for more practice. Now we do all of that and more. It's much harder to get a perfect score, but the reality aspect of qualification (and training) in excellent.

It is funny how America is getting more and more obese on average but qualification targets are getting smaller. I guess it's like practicing with a 20lb shot put when the competition model is 16lbs.

 

[Walthernut]

I sucked up the cost of having to pay 25 bucks each way to check my baggage, loaded my Sigma in my carry case, 100 rounds of ammo and headed to Florida to qualify at my Old Department. I have been practicing but had no idea how the course had changed. First thing I noted was that the target a B21-E is much smaller than what I had been shooting at.

The only real headace was the draw and shoot two in two seconds as the target turned. It was a relatively easy course but different than when I was on active duty. I scored 38/40 and qualified. I noted that my shots were low and left and I came to the conclusion that it was the difference in the shillouetes I had been using. I bought a 100 of the "official targets......funny my shooting is improving...botton line is the Sigma was flawless and I expected the range master to bad mouth it but he thought it was an ok gun.....me too...I am now legal in all 50 states...

What do you mean by legal in all states?

 

[tpd223]

What do you mean by legal in all states?

I'm guessing he is referring to HR218, and the need for LEOs both current and retired to be qualified yearly to stay current with this law if they want to carry outside of their home state.

An observation and a question;

Low left hits from a right handed shooter indicate trigger pull/slap issues.


Do they not qualify out of state officers in TX?

Just curious as I have run several out of state retired officers through the KS C-POST qual course here so that they can stay current, legal, and don't have to travel back home just for a qual shoot.

 

[jtpur]

I was referring to HR 218.....I am not sure if the local guys do, I did not bother to ask.....My Department qualified me to their standards which meet or exceed FDLE which meet or exceed Texas so I figure Im in compliance....it is on my ID issued by my agency that I can carry a semi auto, and on my FDLE form make model and SN. If I were on active duty it would not be a problem...HR 218 has more holes than swiss cheese. I might see if the local coppers will qualify me but I have a Texas CHL, Florida CCW, Utah CFL and a Maine CFL....so I think I have most bases covered. and frankly if I ever have to use the damn thing in Texas I have a license and legal coverage for that situation and if Im out of State it would be the State's job to prove I violated some law not mine to prove I did not.....thank God for the Constitution. The law says things about quals but not about how to prove it or what you need.....

 

[MikeTodd]

This is good to hear considering I will be qualifying with my sigma 40ve on the 7th of August for my local sheriffs dpt. I will be carrying it as my duty weapon while I"m a reserve and can't wait to show those guys how it shoots!

 

[PDL]

I'm sure you're covered. But you still have to follow the local laws. You don't want a >10rnd mag in MA, and you don't want HP's in NJ. Like we've said before.
You will probably get a break by being on the job. But I wouldn't count on it, in some locals.

 

[kraigwy]

But you still have to follow the local laws. You don't want a >10rnd mag in MA, and you don't want HP's in NJ.

Read HR 218, there a some local laws that have to be obeyed, the 10 rd/HP aint them. You do have to carry the 'same type" you qualified with.

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

NOTE the NOTWITHSTANDING: It means regardless of 10 round mags or hollow points. I included the exceptions to the retired officer carring in other states.

 

[jtpur]

That's how I read it too Kraig....but I often wonder if that's how the polit bureau in NJ and MA and NY read it too...Oh and I forgot about the people Republics of Wisconsin and Illinois, and no tellin what the Left Coast may read the law as saying, but Ill take my chances anyway.....thanks for posting the revelant provisions. I keep them in my golve box and overnight bag....

 

[PDL]

Read HR 218, there a some local laws that have to be obeyed, the 10 rd/HP aint them. You do have to carry the 'same type" you qualified with.



NOTE the NOTWITHSTANDING: It means regardless of 10 round mags or hollow points. I included the exceptions to the retired officer carring in other states.

I don't see where you get your interpretation of the law. The parts you quoted say you can carry a firearm - NOTWITHSTANDING. I'd read that to say places like IL and WI can't stop you from carrying.
It don't say squat about ammo or mags. In another thread, a retired leo asked about HPs in NJ. The state police here said, Federal EFMJ, Glaser/Powerball, or Hornady Critical defense cause they're not HPs.

 

[PDL]

I did a quick search. I don't know anything about the site NJLawman.com, but here's a quote from them about carrying here.

HR 218 will not be a defense to possessing hollow point bullets, carrying a weapon on a school campus, carrying a prohibited weapons, carrying a weapon in a casino, etc. Some of these scenarios are illegal in certain states. Know HR 218, but also know the laws of that state in which you intend to carry!

 

[PDL]

I don't like to see folks get into trouble so I went looking for better info. It looks like congress agrees that hi-cap mags and HP ammo bans are NOT superseded by the LEOSA.
The Senate has passed S1132 to correct the problem. The house has been sitting on their half H.R. 3752 since May, actually it's in the judiciary committee. The changes only cover ammo, Hi-cap mags aren't mentioned.

 

[Deltaboy]

BOO HISS I want LEO's who are retired to allowed to carry what they want regardless of gutless states like NJ ect.

 

[jtpur]

PDL thanks for the research and the quote you cited. I carry power ball and Im not sure if that is hollow point or not...the mag is high capacity....If my department says I can carry it I can carry it if the Feds say I can carry it. The problem is that it depends on where a comma is put and they way I read it the Notwithstanding refers to places and not the type of gun. The bottom line is all any of us have now is an opinion and just like rear ends they all stink. Until an appeals court rules we are all in the dark....As I said the law has more holes than swiss cheese. I think my theory would make a good defense and if not at trial certainly on appeal. I hope to not get to that point....any lawyer types out there who would like to opine?