Single Action Revolvers for Defense?

[Wise_A]

The problem is that they don't do anything that other stuff doesn't do better. Mostly. I'll get to that later. Some of the other stuff that's been said is bizarre.

Single-actions aren't any more pointable than any other handgun with the right grip and technique. Tell you the truth, point-shooting just isn't that hard once you understand the basics of it. If you take the gun in your hand, point at your target, and don't find it pointing at what you wanted, the problem is not the pistol. It's your big dumb hand.

Any advantage in safety is lost once you realize that if you have to actually use the thing, and cock it, you now have to carefully lower the hammer, under stress, in order to re-holster. To say nothing of how cocking complicates a surreptitious draw.

They're not any more one-handed than any other handgun. That's why they're called "handguns" and not "handsguns". About the only thing you could say is that they're more ambidextrous than a pistol that has a non-ambidextrous safety. And there are way too many handguns without manual safeties to make single-actions worth looking at.

There is no advantage to having less rounds. I have no idea why people think that having a lower-capacity handgun, or one with a lower practical rate of fire, magically makes them better marksmen and grants their bullets the power of the mythical "one-shot stop". If you can't hit water falling out of a boat, a smaller magazine or a six-shooter isn't going to fix the fact that you suck.

More powerful chamberings might be a thing. Until you read Greg Ellifritz's fine work. .380 ACP, over 85 cases, averaged 1.76 rounds to incapacitation, a 44% one-shot stop percentage, a 62% one-shot stop percentage from torso and head hits, and a 16% failure-to-stop percentage. .44 Magnum, over 24 cases, averaged 1.71 rounds to incapacitation, a 59% one-shot top percentage, a 53% one-shot stop percentage from torso and head hits, and a 13% failure-to-stop percentage.

Simply stated, it's not what you throw, it's where you put it.

Can a single-action revolver be as fast as a double? Sure, with a lot of practice. And by the time you're as fast with a single-action as an average decently-practiced DA revolver shooter, you could be a real ace with a DA sixgun or a pistol.

And last, pretty much any gun you can buy today is going to shoot any silly garbage ammo you decide to feed it. Ditto for polymer guns, which are tough enough to survive impacts that their operators wouldn't.

picked up a 4 5/8" Blackhawk in .41mag a few months ago. I plan to carry when hunting/scouting for deer or just roaming the great outdoors.
It's a cool gun, very accurate and .41mag will handle anything I'll meet in my hunting grounds.
Of course it's not the best choice for self defense...but I don't feel unarmed with it and probably won't carry another gun if I have that on me.
Having an accurate/powerful gun with me and the mindset to use it when needed should be enough.

Good for you. Go for it. I'm not even being sarcastic, that gun is right up your alley. By the time you get to an automatic that's on-par with the .41 Magnum, it's going to be exotic and abusive to shoot, or not quite up to the power level of the .41...and abusive to shoot.

Sure, you could get a DA revolver in .41 Mag. I even here there's a company in Massachusetts that used to make one . But getting one would be rather expensive. I sure wouldn't wanna drag a .41 S&W through the woods.

Maybe a Redhawk...except the Redhawk's single-action pull is known to be heavy (it uses a single spring in place of an S&W's independent hammer spring and trigger return spring).

So yeah. Perfect gun, perfect cartridge, perfect situation. Although I would have also accepted ".45 Colt". By the time you get to .44s, though, you can get a 629 for not a lot more than a Blackhawk.

 

[apollo99]

When I travel the 8 miles into the Town of Prescott Arizona, I see a lot of single action revolvers on belts being carried. While I personally feel more comfortable with my concealed Glock 19 or Springfield Pro, The cowboys around here look pretty defended with their choice of side arm. I've never walked down Whiskey Row in Prescott day or night without seeing someone with a SAA in a cowboy belt and holster. I guess it works for them out here in the west.

 

[k22fan]

So far I have heard one good reason for choosing single actions for self defense and it's not in this thread. Back in the 1980s a retired friend spent a lot of time knocking about and prospecting in rural areas of other states. He traveled with two primed stainless Ruger Old Armys. He figured, probably correctly, that it was unlikely a county deputy would bother an old geezer over muzzle loaders. However, out of state concealed carry permits have eliminated his need.

In case you wonder about their safety, at rest their solid hammer nose drops into slots between chambers. That gives them a one round advantage over old single actions which they equal in power.

 

[RobertJ.]

Would I choose one for SD? No. Could I effectively use one for SD? Oh yeah!

I grew up shooting my dad's Ruger BH .41 Magnum. Shooting a SA is very natural to me. However, I wouldn't choose one for that purpose.

 

[Wise_A]

He traveled with two primed stainless Ruger Old Armys. He figured, probably correctly, that it was unlikely a county deputy would bother an old geezer over muzzle loaders.

I kind've want a cap-and-ball, actually. A couple dudes brought theirs to a little funtimes shoot once, and the sound of that black powder going off was incredible. Not to mention the huge clouds of smoke.

 

[chief38]

DISCLAIMER: This is another one of my seemingly endless parade of threads on various defense topics. I apologize in advance if you think this is stupid or that I am an idiot. This is more or less for my own curiosity and I just enjoy reading your replies and hopefully gaining some knowledge from the folks here at the S&W forum. Thanks for putting up with my nonsense.

So I have recently purchase a Ruger's New Model Blackhawk single-action revolver in .45 Colt. I got to thinking that if for some reason I was caught out when shooting the gun or if it was the only gun I had available to me at any given time, that I might need to deploy the gun in a self defense role against human attackers. Here is Lost Wages the threat from most animals is very low. The threat from bipedal animals is unfortunatly not.

Then I got to thinking about cowboy action shooters and the things they can do with their revolvers. Quite impressive. Some further reading showed that the famous Gunsite Academy in Arizona now offers a single action revolver defensive shooting course. More things to chew on.

This is a fun gun for me, but potentially another tool in the toolbox for more serious purposes if pressed. It's something I'd have to work on and research and I intend to with time. I certainly have other, more modern weapons that I'd reach for first but if it was all I'd have I would want to have some basic shooting and reloading skills down specific to its operation.

What do you guys have to say on the subject? Anyone pack an old single action or employ one in the self/home defense role? Again, not implying anything, just looking to strike up some conversation on a topic I've been thinking about. Please share.

-Jay

If you are where you can carry in the Desert, Woods or Mountains for defense against dangerous Animals and do not need to conceal it, then it makes an excellent gun in the 45 Colt caliber. You might look into Buffalo Bore .45 Colt loadings! Of course reloading is slow, but I'm sure you realize that already.

As far as SD - concealed carry goes for two legged Animals, it would certainly not be my first choice as it is very heavy, very bulky, very large, slow to reload and quite cumbersome. IMO best as a fun gun at the Range or in the wilderness. Of course if you practiced enough you could get pretty good at reloading - but again, not the best for SD other than the Caliber of course which is excellent!

 

[murphydog]

If a Colt or Ruger-pattern SA revolver is all you had, and you practice with it, you would be fine.

Note the statistic quoted above - less than two rounds fired (with .380 or .44 Magnum!) until mission accomplished, in the fairly rare instance a handgun has to be used at all. That would mean 3-4 rounds left, not to mention the J frame you'd likely be carrying as a backup.

 

[Old cop]

Nothing wrong w/a single action revolver but I don’t currently own one or plan to. I’m still a double action revolver guy that survived three deadly force encounters w/my issued .38, but if I knew I was going to be in a gunfight I’d take my Glock 17. IMHO auto loaders are tactically superior in a real life fight and that’s why our military & police carry them.

 

[diggler1833]

While I agree that single action revolvers are better than 'no firearm', I would not consider them an ideal self-defense gun. Yes, I own quite a few three screw Blackhawks and Colt/S&W replicas before someone starts to question.

You cannot guarantee that you will not be in the middle of a grappling match when you need to operate that revolver. Fewer steps in operation, and the fact that you don't have to break your firing grip to operate the revolver is what makes DA superior. Believing that all bad-guys will square off to you before they pounce, leaving you with enough time to give them a Clint Eastwood eye as you skin your smoke wagon is something that is best suited for Hollywood.

I'm also not concerned about the fact that most encounters are over in a couple of shots, I'm concerned again about being able to get off those shots while someone is grabbing at my firearm hand, slashing at me with a knife etc...

 

[Rastoff]

I'm not meaning to outright disagree with anybody here but I think Jerry Miculek and Ed McGivern might when told semis and single actions shoot faster than double action revolvers.

And Bob Munden was faster than them.

Of course we can find exceptions to every rule. There is always someone faster, that's not the point. Like I said, it CAN be faster. Not faster for most normal people like those of us here, but it can be very fast.

The one aspect that is not in question is reloading. Any revolver with a swing out cylinder is faster to reload. I've never seen one, but I've heard that there is a single action revolver with a swing out cylinder.

 

[model17]

Food for thought: In some liberal states, cocking the hammer may be construed as premeditated, even in a SD situation.

 

[Bakebfr480]

I carry a 4 5/8 barreled SBH 44 mag. quite a bit. I don't feel under gunned!

 

[BAM-BAM]

Not my first choice..........

Not my second choice...............


does rank above ; knife,baseball bat, rock or sharp stick..... to name a few!!!




Heck with the number of folks here who don't carry a reload for their auto or DA revolver........... 6 rounds of .45 colt,.44 special or .44 or .357 magnum seems GTG

 

[k22fan]

[...] The one aspect that is not in question is reloading. Any revolver with a swing out cylinder is faster [than a single action] to reload. [...]

Let's bring that into question. 19 Century automatic ejecting single action top break revolvers are faster to reload than S&W hand ejectors. Yes, speed loaders were made for them. However, I doubt their early speed loaders could keep up with full moon clips.

 

[Rastoff]

...I doubt their early speed loaders could keep up with full moon clips.

You'll get no argument from me. I didn't differentiate between moon clips and speed loaders. However, moon clips are faster. I've seen a revolver shooter, starting from the holster, actually get two shots on target and reload faster than a guy with an auto loader. The auto loader guy was no slouch either. It was really fun to watch.

 

[Mule Packer]

Years ago when I was "playing cowboy," the 24,000-acre ranch where we worked was situated in rough, remote, mountainous, heavily timbered country. It was also heavily populated with black bear and mountain lions that had absolutely no reservations about taking down a young calf. Our foreman wanted us all carrying sidearms and he preferred that we carry single-actions. Why? His reasoning was that if a single-action got a little dirty, it would still function. I wasn't going to argue. He was the boss.

Years later, when I was leading a pack string into designated wilderness areas, I always packed a single-action Ruger Blackhawk chambered in .45 Colt, loaded with some heavy duty rounds...usually 240-grain semi-jacketed hollow cavities traveling around 950 fps. Carried that for over 20 years. Why? Probably for the same reason. I guess old habits die hard.

When I shot SASS for several years, I learned to fire a single-action revolver pretty darned quickly, using my offhand thumb to do the cocking.

Sure, we'll always have the argument that semi-autos will fire faster. Our SASS group went up against the local police department in a shooting match...the cowboys using single-actions and the cops using semi-autos. Believe it or not, the cowboys won, not only in speed, but in accuracy...not just once, but several times.

Do I personally carry a single-action for self defense? No, but when "push comes to shove," if somebody feels comfortable using a single-action for self-defense, or if that's the only handgun they have available to them, they certainly could do worse.

Just my view from the saddle.

 

[Watchdog]

...when I was leading a pack string into designated wilderness areas, I always packed a single-action Ruger Blackhawk chambered in .45 Colt, loaded with some heavy duty rounds...usually 240-grain semi-jacketed hollow cavities traveling around 950 fps.

That's an excellent round in .45 Colt, very accurate out of the right gun...and the Old Model Ruger Blackhawk is the right gun. I have two boxes of it in the cabinet right now.

 

[Donn]

If an SA is what you've got, train with it, get proficient. Beats a pocket full of stones.

 

[Ross3914]

About the only time it would make sense to me is if you are shooting a bunch of cowboy action stuff. Then the training factor may make it a more viable choice.

I can't really see any advantage otherwise.

 

[vonn]

I use a single action super Blackhawk in 44 mag with 240 grain thumpers walking up pigs and have managed on more than one occasion to bring down three with three or four shots being taken. Pigs are at least as fast as most bad guys. The AR guys don’t do any better,so I feel pretty safe with my single actions. Not easy to conceal carry though!