Single Shot ID/Info Request

[erikpolcrack]

I have inherited a S&W 22LR single shot and am uncertain of age, model number, value, etc. It has a 10-inch barrel and the last pat date appears to be Sept. 14. 08 (or 09). SN might be 4608. I say might be because that number appears on the underside of the sight/latch. I'm hesitant to take off the stocks to look on the grip frame because the grip is a complicated three-piece affair with what looks like an elongated wooden Tyler T-grip that extends below the butt and is fastened with two wood screws into the checkered, bronze/gold medallion, diamond wood stocks. I believe it is a Third Model, since it will fire DA. It is in great shape with very little evidence of handling or firing. It came to me wrapped in a rag inside a crumpled old kraft paper bag. It was given to me by the widow along with a beautiful mid-30s SA H&R Sportsman which my kids and I have been shooting regularly. She gave a Colt SAA and a Reising 22 pistol to a closer relative. The safeful of Browning Superposeds she sold to a dealer without consulting us.

 

[rct269]

Given a double action, it's a 3rd Model. Given the serial number, it's a 2nd Model, which (SUPPOSEDLY) ended at 4617------and the 3rds went on from there.

Given the stocks cover the front strap (and obscure THE serial number), the next indicator is the rear sight (which will prove absolutely nothing for the time being), but 3rd's rear sight is screw adjustable for windage (the first one ever---will have a screw on both sides)----the predecessors being simply movable for windage with 2 retaining screws on the back side.

As to age, it for damn sure came about in 1909---unless it didn't.

It is such as this that creates terminal insomnia---and screaming!!

Job One is to get a letter----do it now!

Ralph Tremaine

Oh!---Model number--there ain't any----thank God for small favors! Value---a BUNCH!!---how high is up?

And I am REALLY steamed!! I took great pride in having one each of every .22 Single Shot in my collection of S&W target guns----one each defined as each model, all barrel lengths, all variations, NO NICKEL, and now you've gone and ruined that!! I think I hate you!

On the other hand, this is GREAT!!!!

OH!! PICTURES--if you can---and if you can't, maybe a house call can be arranged by someone near by.

As to the serial number, the one you've given from the latch/rear sight SHOULD be the same as the one on the frame---and the barrel---and wherever else there's supposed to be one, but all bets are off with this gun!

Given all is as it should be, serial numbers will be found on every piece fit to the frame---AND every piece fit to a piece fit to the frame. They were fussy about getting these things back together after finishing----picky-picky-picky!!

(And as an aside about model numbers (and/or letters), I'm reasonably certain there were model numbers long before they (unfortunately) came to be in common usage. They most certainly were in common usage internally----perhaps also by distributors.)

 

[erikpolcrack]

Given a double action, it's a 3rd Model. Given the serial number, it's a 2nd Model, which (SUPPOSEDLY) ended at 4617------and the 3rds went on from there.

Given the stocks cover the front strap (and obscure THE serial number), the next indicator is the rear sight (which will prove absolutely nothing for the time being), but 3rd's rear sight is screw adjustable for windage (the first one ever---will have a screw on both sides)----the predecessors being simple movable for windage with 2 retaining screws on the back side.

As to age, it for damn sure came about in 1909---unless it didn't.

It is such as this that creates terminal insomnia---and screaming!!

Job One is to get a letter----do it now!

Ralph Tremaine

Oh!---Model number--there ain't any----thank God for small favors! Value---a BUNCH!!---how high is up?

Thanks! Rear sight does have an adjustment screw on both sides. I may take it to my gunsmith and have him remove the grip to check SN on grip frame.

 

[erikpolcrack]

Given a double action, it's a 3rd Model. Given the serial number, it's a 2nd Model, which (SUPPOSEDLY) ended at 4617------and the 3rds went on from there.

Given the stocks cover the front strap (and obscure THE serial number), the next indicator is the rear sight (which will prove absolutely nothing for the time being), but 3rd's rear sight is screw adjustable for windage (the first one ever---will have a screw on both sides)----the predecessors being simply movable for windage with 2 retaining screws on the back side.

As to age, it for damn sure came about in 1909---unless it didn't.

It is such as this that creates terminal insomnia---and screaming!!

Job One is to get a letter----do it now!

Ralph Tremaine

Oh!---Model number--there ain't any----thank God for small favors! Value---a BUNCH!!---how high is up?

And I am REALLY steamed!! I took great pride in having one each of every .22 Single Shot in my collection of S&W target guns----one each defined as each model, all barrel lengths, all variations, NO NICKEL, and now you've gone and ruined that!! I think I hate you!

On the other hand, this is GREAT!!!!

OH!! PICTURES--if you can---and if you can't, maybe a house call can be arranged by someone near by.

As to the serial number, the one you've given from the latch/rear sight SHOULD be the same as the one on the frame---and the barrel---and wherever else there's supposed to be one, but all bets are off with this gun!

Given all is as it should be, serial numbers will be found on every piece fit to the frame---AND every piece fit to a piece fit to the frame. They were fussy about getting these things back together after finishing----picky-picky-picky!!

Just back from the gunsmith. He very carefully disassembled the grip and confirmed the serial number is 4608. BTW, 4th Ed. of the Standard Catalog mentions in passing that there are Third Models that have SNs lower than the official 4617 starting point.

 

[rct269]

Just back from the gunsmith. He very carefully disassembled the grip and confirmed the serial number is 4608. BTW, 4th Ed. of the Standard Catalog mentions in passing that there are Third Models that have SNs lower than the official 4617 starting point.

That being the case, you have one--perhaps the very first one----and I didn't!! Damn it anyhow!!

All that aside, this is one of those things that's "Way Cool!!" Count your blessings!---------maybe buy a lottery ticket---or 6 or 8!!

And the official starting point for 3rd's is 4618---4617 being the official ending point of the 2nd------depending upon the definition of "official". I reckon the folks who wrote N&J had their own definition---and it very likely was "official"---before time passed and things changed----Damn it anyhow, again!

And get that letter-----think of it as "Money in the bank!"-------unless the letter comes back saying things like "open on the books". That means, "We're pretty sure we made it, but we don't have the first clue about what happened to it after that."

Ralph Tremaine

 

[mmaher94087]

"And the official starting point for 3rd's is 4618---4617.." N&J (the bible) was first published ca. 1965. The serial number ranges were mostly from observed examples available at the time. Some serial numbers were taken from factory records, and some were 'finger-in-the-wind' guesses. I don't know where these serial numbers were gleamed from but a few numbers on each side of the actual numbers seems entirely possible.

 

[rct269]

Good point!

On the other hand, Jinks first visited the factory in 1957; and it's clear he was soon given unrestricted access to their files after that, clear in that he states he has amassed something on the order of 100,00 items from their files--and no doubt elsewhere. Given that, it seems somewhere between more than likely and a lead pipe cinch that information contained in N&J is considerably more credible (and documented) than would be the case had it been amassed mostly from observed examples.

Now Neal's sight work, The Evolution of Smith & Wesson Target Sights, on the other hand, is based almost entirely on samples observed by him------and his legions of helpers----simply because the factory kept virtually no records whatsoever on sights. (Jinks notes "This is not a surprise as many of what the foreman (Plant Manager) considered as minor changes is not recorded.") I have Bob's complete file containing the research for this work, and it is prodigious---fair boggles the mind!!

Ralph Tremaine