Slaying of rancher on the border saturday

[snakeman32]

scoutsdad,
If it gets crazy down there and you need help in the area let me know.


snakeman

 

[scoutsdad]

scoutsdad,
If it gets crazy down there and you need help in the area let me know.


snakeman

It is already crazy, CCW classes filled to overflowing, Grandma's packing. I myself bought 2 semi-auto rifles in 3 months, one for me, one for Ms. scoutsdad. Rob let his defenses down, he had a pistol and a rifle on his ATV. He never exposed them.

We were reminded of AZ's new defense laws;

13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition
A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
B. This section does not apply to a person who:
1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.
2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.
C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.
D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:
1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.
2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.


I know before I would never remove my gun from my holster except to use it. Now I will pull my gun first ask questions later.

And we will remember the 21 ft rule, no one will get that close to me unless he is on the ground and spread.

 

[snakeman32]

It will definately give them something to think about if you show them you are armed and willing to protect youself. Remember to watch your back.


snakeman

 

[nostraDONus]

Do we send any financial aid to Mexico? We should be billing them for every illegal caught and sent back. Maybe we could offset a few trillion being spent by our current Congress. We need to flip the responsibility back over to the Mexican government to stop their citizens before they cross. The message needs to be sent that it is no longer acceptable to look the other way or encourage them to cross. I just don't see anybody currently on Capitol hill with the stones to take a stand.

 

[Indycar]

I'm very familiar with that area, my dad retired there in 95' and I spent a lot of time out there over holidays and summers. I do a lot of hiking and exploring in the mountains and the flats. The custom there is everyone carries a firearm if one goes outside of town (even the little old church ladies). Open carry is normal and I've NEVER seen a rancher without a piece on his hip or vehicle. Dopers (aka: mules) run across the board freely and "coyotes" are running UDA"s (undocumented alliens) across the boarder at will.

Less than a mile from the boarder is sign reading "If this was Scottsdale the National Guard would be here" except that the NG has to deal with "Posse Comatadis" and would thus be unarmed.

I personally have seen well armed "coyotes" and "mules" with about a dozen people or packers in the mountains. You just draw your weapons, hunker down and try to get in as a strategic position as you can should they spot you. I've never been in a shoot out with them, but know many that have (who have won and lost).

The only solution to the problem is to militarize and arm this side of the border and seal the border. Right now it is so porous that anyone with a map and a brain can get to Tucson (about 100 miles away) undetected.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

It is a sad statement but we actually need illegal Mexicans in this country. There are jobs that Americans will not do and feel it beneath them. A friend owns a linen service and placed an ad in the local paper for workers in his new plant. He hired 17 Americans and four LEGAL Mexicans. They were paid $7.32 per hr. to wash, fold and stack linen to be delivered to hotels. At the end of a month, he had ONE American left and had all 17 of the Mexicans still there. Mexicans do not mind hard labor. He still tries to hire Americans but they never stay long.

I am as American as they come. But those complaining about Mexicans taking their jobs generally will have a foreign car in their drive. It may have been assembled in the US but it was made in some other country and the profits of the car went to another country. That still puts Americans out of work.

With all due respect, I find that comment about "we need illegals" highly disturbing. Not from what your reasons you wrote (I understand your context here), but to me, this philosophy sounds to me like history repeating itself. Let me explain:

I have seen illegal immigrants over the years treated as nothing more than a new version of slave labor. I have seen them treated and abused at levels NO person should tolerate. Add "coyotes" to this and you see an even bigger picture that bears this out (read: modern slave traders). The fact the illegals chose to come over here makes no difference.

Back in the 1850's, lots of people of high standing of that time wrote about "we need slavery for our economy", too.

The violence in Mexico is going to increase with potential for armed upheaval on a massive scale that at this point I believe is inevitable. When this occurs, it will not be already desperate people looking for a better way of life...but refugees of an all out war that will overwhelm resourses at even a national level. This is where it will start to get ugly. What we are seeing now is really only a small taste of what is to come.

I do agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote about our own countrymen. I have had staff work for me when I was a supervisor tell me that :
* "I can make more money going back and selling drugs..."
* "I ain't doing all that for this money..."
* "I'd rather go back on welfare/unemployment..." (take your pick)
* "I don't need this job..."
All this for simple guard job where the main tasks were extremely easy and not in a dangerous position.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Do we send any financial aid to Mexico? We should be billing them for every illegal caught and sent back. Maybe we could offset a few trillion being spent by our current Congress. We need to flip the responsibility back over to the Mexican government to stop their citizens before they cross. The message needs to be sent that it is no longer acceptable to look the other way or encourage them to cross. I just don't see anybody currently on Capitol hill with the stones to take a stand.

I agree, but the system in Mexico is, in my opinion, beyond repair at this point. Sometimes, you just have to reboot and start over.

In the end, it will have to be the Mexican people themselves to stand up and change it...at that point, we can help...but only to a point. The final call has to be on them.

Depending on the government to take ANY action with the current mindset in place expecting way too much. It will have to be done on the state and local level and there WILL be retailiation from Washington if this occurs...count on it.

 

[handejector]

This topic always generates lots of heat and little light.

Thank you- that is the best summation on the subject I have ever seen.