Slow or Fast barrels Myth

[Luke Duke]

Has anyone heard of this? Same guns come off the same line : but some barrels are faster, some are slower. I have a Ruger .41 Mag new manufacture that, wont shoot any load even close to Max safe published loads. All over the place. Drop the loads to Minimum or less and its a tack driver. 7.2 gr Unique perfect 8.0 all over. 16.0 gr 2400 perfect Anything over up to Max all over the place; gave up on 296/110 because down loading isn't an option and accuracy was non existent. I'm a safe reloader and always follow published loads. But I have 357's and 44's that wont shoot light loads well, or OK and only like being pushed a little to get shooting right. I've always found a safe warm load.
This 41 will Only shoot light loads, which is fine because accuracy is always first. and this gun does it in Spades! Just find it odd.

 

[ReloadforFun]

Given the variables, including chamber, bore, surface finish and such, it's to be expected that different barrels will show different results. As such, a smaller chamber may deliver higher velocities than another barrel will a larger size chamber.

Fast or slow barrels does not normally mean that the gun will or will not shoot different load levels. You may want to have the revolver checked to be certain the forcing cone and other aspects are as they should be.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I can beleive that a barrel that has a finer finish and less ridges.......
can put out a few more fps than a sloppy barrel.

Also if it's diamiter is right on for the bullet and not too tight or a sloppy fit.

As a gunners mate in the Navy, I found a lot of rifles and 45 pistols that would out shot
many of the other weapons used in our 500 shooters, at the range.

I don't know if it was the weapon or the shooter it was issued to but I did take
notes of all the scores at all the qualifications and practice sessions and did
notice that there were a few weapons that did better than others.

However, one must know that a lot of the shooters just ripped off the ammo,
and cared less about their score since they had a "Gravey train job" where the scores did not hamper their pay raise.

 

[Luke Duke]

.41

Cylinder throats are spot on , barrel cylinder gap is.004 . Forcing cone is nice and tight. The only issue is the front sight isn't right and I have too move the rear father to the right than I like to make it shoot center. The gun is solid, and light loads shoot awesome , stellar actually. Doesn't matter if cast or jacketed bullets. Just cant near Max loads.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I don't believe in myths, but I do believe in manufacturing tolerances. Perfection is a fine goal, but one that will be achieved by humans only by accident or divine intervention.

The only process that humans can complete with absolute regularity is error. How much error can be allowed in any given process is the basic definition of manufacturing tolerance.

 

[Luke Duke]

I don't believe in myths, but I do believe in manufacturing tolerances. Perfection is a fine goal, but one that will be achieved by humans only by accident or divine intervention.

The only process that humans can complete with absolute regularity is error. How much error can be allowed in any given process is the basic definition of manufacturing tolerance.

Thats a fact

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Cylinder throats are spot on , barrel cylinder gap is.004 . Forcing cone is nice and tight. The only issue is the front sight isn't right and I have too move the rear father to the right than I like to make it shoot center. The gun is solid, and light loads shoot awesome , stellar actually. Doesn't matter if cast or jacketed bullets. Just cant near Max loads.

Please don't take this wrong. This is just another possibility not a sure thing. Are you sure it's the hotter load itself or is it possible the additional recoil generated by the hotter load is causing you to shoot poorly? Have you had anyone else shoot the gun with the different loads to see if they get the same results? After all, the .41 Magnum at full power will generate considerable recoil. Just a thought...

 

[Cdog]

I don't equate slow vs fast barrel to accuracy. I have seen two identical production rifles using the same ammo have consistent measurable differences in average velocity, but little to no meaningful difference in overall accuracy.

I have a 4 5/8" 41 Mag Blackhawk that can be a handful to shoot when stuffed with W296 using factory grips. Pachmayr grips are ugly as sin on a single action, but they may be of some aid while shooting top velocity rounds.

 

[Univibe]

There's some evidence that hexagonal barrels (HK, Glock) are faster than traditional l!ND and groove rifling.

 

[gwpercle]

I understand what you're getting at ... Accuracy with light / heavy loads and the whims of handguns ...
I have seen one or two that did best with full magnum loads and 2400 powder which seem to be common .
I also would prefer a gun that did best with lighter loads ... I shoot way more of them than full magnum .

I have but one revolver that shoots everything accurately ... the Model 58 S&W 41 Magnum in my avatar ... the thing is sorta spooky ... it doesn't mater what you load , cast bullet weight wise or if you load them "slow" or "fast" ...they all shoot very well and all the different loads tend to shoot very close to the fixed sights .. It's just Wierd !!!

I guess that's why I've kept this one ( bought in 1974) fixed sights and all ... these don't come along all that often .
Gary

 

[bmcgilvray]

I got on a long barrel kick around 1980 and gathered in a selection of blued K and N frame 8 3/8-inch barreled revolvers including a nice new Model 27 with the long snout.

A year or so later I found a "deal" on a new blued 6-inch Model 27. For some reason the 8 3/8-inch was slower than the 6 inch. Didn't matter what heavy handload was used with the "usual suspect" powders: 2400, H110, W296, or Blue Dot, the 8 3/8-inch was notably slower, about 100-150 fps, when both Model 27s were tested over the chronograph screens. Faster burning powders used in light to moderate applications were just as bad.

None of the other long barreled center fire Smith & Wessons exhibited this phenomenon. The long barreled Model 14 would occasionally give lower velocities than shorter barreled .38 Specials with light target loads using fast burning powder, but that could be expected.

Both Model 27s exhibited a pleasing barrel/cylinder gap and a superficial squint down the bores and at the forcing cones didn't detect any differences.

After a few years I sent the long barreled Model 27 on down the trail in favor of the 6-inch which I have and use to this day. Was a gorgeous revolver in its wooden case and I sort of wish I had it back now, but didn't really serve a purpose with its "slow barrel."

The 8 3/8-inch Model 27 did serve a purpose one night. A friend and I were calling varmints down between Grandview and Itasca, Texas and I had chosen to tote all that long barreled .357 magnum ordnance as the side arm on that occasion. We were standing in the back of a pickup calling and hoping for a coyote to appear in our powerful spotlight beam so we could take a whack with his .243. After only few moment's blowing on the call a large owl descended on us, actually striking us with his wings. Once he started he didn't want to cease and desist so I yanked out the 8 3/8-inch Model 27 and flailed and poked at him with the long barrel which sent him packing. Might have been the most crucial self defense use I ever made of a handgun.

But wait, there's more!

There's a 6-inch blued Colt Python on hand with a good tight barrel/cylinder gap that's has even a "slower" barrel than that good 6-inch Model 27 that I've got, like 150-200 fps slower with favorite .357 Magnum loads. The thing's a slug! While it is very accurate, I only keep it around because it's a stinkin' Colt Python.

 

[shocker]

Chapter 18 of the Speer Manual "Why Ballisticians Get Gray", says it all.

 

[boatbum101]

Have you checked for a tight spot ( thread choke ) where barrel screws to frame ? Wouldn't be the first Ruger to have it .

 

[jcelect]

Fast and slow barrels? ! ?

I'm confused with this question! Is the question based on the velocity of the bullet from a barrel or the question about the twist rate of the barrel? The twist rate of a barrel is based primarily on the bullet weight to be used. This has more effect on the accuracy of a gun than the velocity of the bullet! Try using different weight bullets rather than increasing the powder!
jcelect

 

[Nevada Ed]

As for fps of a "Load"....... not barrel..........

Lots of my weapons shoot slow target and full loads accuratly.

Just that some of my hot or full loads are not shot in my weapons and
were just found in my testing of loads for the weapons.

Even though the manuals state they are safe, does not mean that I must use them.

However I do have one "Hang on Sloopy" real .357 Magnum load for my 686 6", just for giggles......
for the indoor range, to wake everyone up !!

 

[Luke Duke]

41

Please don't take this wrong. This is just another possibility not a sure thing. Are you sure it's the hotter load itself or is it possible the additional recoil generated by the hotter load is causing you to shoot poorly? Have you had anyone else shoot the gun with the different loads to see if they get the same results? After all, the .41 Magnum at full power will generate considerable recoil. Just a thought...

Nothing like my .44 Mag stuffed with full throttle loads! Shoot these fine. No that 41 is a nice shooting round.

 

[SMSgt]

I had a Blackhawk 4-5/8 .357 and could hit the ground shooting straight down. Sold it and bought a .41 Mag BH with 6-1/2 barrel and it was a tack driver, my fav handgun of all time. Didn't matter on the load, Blue Dot powder being my preferred.

 

[Luke Duke]

I had a Blackhawk 4-5/8 .357 and could hit the ground shooting straight down. Sold it and bought a .41 Mag BH with 6-1/2 barrel and it was a tack driver, my fav handgun of all time. Didn't matter on the load, Blue Dot powder being my preferred.

Mine is a 6.5 in barrel and its a tack driver. Just doesn't like hot loads.. Mine loves 16.0 2400 and a 210 Hornady. Or 7.2 gr of Unique and a 210-215 cast . Mild loads. Anything over and accuracy goes away. Don't get me wrong , I love this gun. And am totally confident in it. I hit everything my sights are on.

 

[Luke Duke]

I got on a long barrel kick around 1980 and gathered in a selection of blued K and N frame 8 3/8-inch barreled revolvers including a nice new Model 27 with the long snout.

A year or so later I found a "deal" on a new blued 6-inch Model 27. For some reason the 8 3/8-inch was slower than the 6 inch. Didn't matter what heavy handload was used with the "usual suspect" powders: 2400, H110, W296, or Blue Dot, the 8 3/8-inch was notably slower, about 100-150 fps, when both Model 27s were tested over the chronograph screens. Faster burning powders used in light to moderate applications were just as bad.

None of the other long barreled center fire Smith & Wessons exhibited this phenomenon. The long barreled Model 14 would occasionally give lower velocities than shorter barreled .38 Specials with light target loads using fast burning powder, but that could be expected.

Both Model 27s exhibited a pleasing barrel/cylinder gap and a superficial squint down the bores and at the forcing cones didn't detect any differences.

After a few years I sent the long barreled Model 27 on down the trail in favor of the 6-inch which I have and use to this day. Was a gorgeous revolver in its wooden case and I sort of wish I had it back now, but didn't really serve a purpose with its "slow barrel."

The 8 3/8-inch Model 27 did serve a purpose one night. A friend and I were calling varmints down between Grandview and Itasca, Texas and I had chosen to tote all that long barreled .357 magnum ordnance as the side arm on that occasion. We were standing in the back of a pickup calling and hoping for a coyote to appear in our powerful spotlight beam so we could take a whack with his .243. After only few moment's blowing on the call a large owl descended on us, actually striking us with his wings. Once he started he didn't want to cease and desist so I yanked out the 8 3/8-inch Model 27 and flailed and poked at him with the long barrel which sent him packing. Might have been the most crucial self defense use I ever made of a handgun.

But wait, there's more!

There's a 6-inch blued Colt Python on hand with a good tight barrel/cylinder gap that's has even a "slower" barrel than that good 6-inch Model 27 that I've got, like 150-200 fps slower with favorite .357 Magnum loads. The thing's a slug! While it is very accurate, I only keep it around because it's a stinkin' Colt Python.

Seems odd right? First gun Ive ever owned that was like that. Ive found most guns have a sweet spot where they just dial in.

 

[Scharfschuetzer]

Fast v. Slow barrels

I've collected Pre-64 Model 70s for many years. In working up loads with chronographs, I'm pretty well convinced that many rifles, even when made only a few years apart will shoot at significantly different velocities. While almost all of mine have shot (with modern bullets) sub 1 1/2 MOA, velocities with the same caliber and load will often vary well over a hundred fps for 10 shot strings between them.

My slowest barrel Model 70 in Ought-Six... yet my favorite, is this circa 1946 in 30/06. It's an MOA shooter, yet 150 fps slower than my fastest Model 70s with my standard Ought-Six loads.