Small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers ?

[Empe]

.....I am being told that this is perfectly fine to do however much of what I read says otherwise . Anyone here actually make the switch ? I am asking because my LGS has the SRP but no SPP . He's an experienced reloader and I am not . He says he's made the switch often with no issues .

 

[DWalt]

The ONLY real issue is whether your gun has enough firing pin impact energy to ignite SR primers reliably. Otherwise, it is perfectly OK to use SR primers in place of SP. Best to prime a batch of at least ten empty cases (more is better), and see if they all go bang in your gun. If so, you are good to go. Ballistic performance differences between SP and SR primers are inconsequential. I have used SR primers for most of my handgun calibers for over 50 years. I do have a few guns which are unreliable with SR primers but will work OK with SP. I have one 9mm pistol in particular which is unusable with SRP loads. All my revolvers, and most semiautos, work fine with SRPs.

 

[rockquarry]

CCI-400 small rifle primers ignite 100% in the revolvers I've tried them in. Accuracy and velocity are virtually the same as when using CCI-500 small pistol primers. If your revolver hasn't been tampered with, the rifle primers should work fine. I suspect the small rifle primers will work in a 9mm pistol, but I haven't verified that yet.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Traded off all my cci spp for lpp months ago but don't use too many small primers. I built a couple spacers to use small [rifle] primer .455 brass to shoot in my 45 colt vaqueros. I had to put the original mainsprings back in due to light strikes. But I've got small primer 45acp brass that run fine in my 1911s and pccs with srp's. Haven't changed any of my loads.

 

[alwslate]

This question has been asked here many times before. Buy all the SRPs you can get and don't look back. I have used many in loads from light to heavy. Given a choice for the same price I would buy SRPs over SPPs for any loads.

 

[9mmPatriot]

My results here:
SRP vs SPP

 

[1sailor]

My Beretta has no problems with SRP's and it has a D spring which is a lightened hammer spring. Haven't tried them in any other pistols yet but I'm not anticipating any issues.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

The short answer is, small rifle primers are essentially interchangeable with small pistol magnum primers for most manufacturers. In the case of CCI, they are confirmed to be the same product. There is some debate as to what actually defines a "magnum" primer. Terms like "brisance" or flame temperature are often mentioned but the defining feature of a magnum primer is primer cup thickness. A higher pressure cartridge requires a tougher cup to contain the pressure. That's the simple answer. Small rifle primers can be used in pistol cases with two caveats: The tougher primer cup could potentially cause unreliable ignition in pistols with light mainsprings, and all max loads should be reduced 10% and worked back up whenever components are changed.

 

[jculloden]

Been using Federal Match SRP for years, works fine

 

[Tu_S]

From my personal experience, CCI #400's with 5.0gn CFE Pistol and a 115gn FMJ performed the same as the #500's, and fired fine in my Hellcat, P365X, and M18.

Also loaded some SPP 45 ACP brass that got picked up accidently at the range, with #400's, 4gn 700-x, and 230gn FMJ, and that also shot the same as rounds loaded with #300's, not an exact comparison since it's LPP v.s. SPP, but it worked. Those were run through 1911's, where by just looking at the big dimple the firing pins put in the things I didn't expect to have a problem.

Not something I plan on doing regularly, and both rounds were loaded on the very low end of the power curve, but I currently have a lot more SRP's than pistol primers sitting around, so who knows what my inventory will look like in a few months where I might have to do a test with the #41's.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Agreed, if you have enough firing pin power there's little performance advantage.

Always (re)work-up new loads whenever you change a component.

I started using the SRP for most of my guns & am saving the SPP for the others for now.

.

avg
fps
-----
1405 = ZERO 125gr JHP // P-P @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-500, SPP
1409 = ZERO 125gr JHP // P-P @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-400, SRP
.
1399 = ZERO 125gr JHP // AA#7 @ 8.4, 8.7, & 9.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-500, SPP
1410 = ZERO 125gr JHP // AA#7 @ 8.4, 8.7, & 9.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-400, SRP
.
1421 = ZERO 125gr JHP // L-S @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-500, SPP
1429 = ZERO 125gr JHP // L-S @ 6.4, 6.7, & 7.0gr // 1.125" // CCI-400, SRP




.

 

[mikld]

A bit of easily found info/opinions; small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers at DuckDuckGo

 

[DWalt]

It astonishes me that this is still probably the most frequently asked handloading question by far and has been for many, many years. I'd think by now that everyone should know the answer. I have been using SRPs in handgun calibers for over 50 years, and others have been doing it for a long time before I did.

 

[flyingbrass]

.....I am being told that this is perfectly fine to do however much of what I read says otherwise . Anyone here actually make the switch ? I am asking because my LGS has the SRP but no SPP . He's an experienced reloader and I am not . He says he's made the switch often with no issues .

I've done a fair amount of research about this. There are multiple reports, with pictures, of breech face erosion when using rifle primers in milder pressure handgun loads (inlcuding up to a bit above 9mm minor). IIRC, the most detailed info about this I found was in the brianenos forums.

I haven't used any yet, but I bought 5K CCI 400 small rifle primers (30ish years old) at a decent price intended for use in 9mm loads if push comes to shove. These are standard rifle primers, which have thinner cups than magnum rifle primers. Years ago, so Internet hearsay info goes, a CCI rep said that CCI small rifle and magnum pistol primers were at the time the same thing. Years have passed since, and some other info indicates that more modern CCI standard small rifle and magnum small pistol are no longer the same thing, if they ever actually were back when. Of course, you don't want to be using magnum small pistol primers either in most handgun rounds.

The main problem apart from any ignition issues with using rifle primers in pistol loads is that the rifle primer cups are harder and require a higher amount of pressure to conform to the primer pockets to seal off gas. Gas escape around overly hard primers is a cause of breech face erosion (nasty pitting).

In 9mm I use mixed range brass with probably 100 or more different headstamps and of mixed ages, so primer pockets vary considerably. I know from feel when seating primers that some pockets are very tight (some likely new with crimps), while others seat with practically no resistance. I'm concerned that the cases with looser pockets may be more prone to leaking with rifle primers. Someone using more consistent brass would have an easier time checking for any leaking problems.

My position from what I've gathered is that I'll only use small rifle primers in higher pressure handgun rounds, in my case 9mm, and only with peppier loads, not wimpy ones. I would not use a small rifle primer in something like .38 Special.

This primer sealing issue is something to be aware of. I don't know how common the problem really is, but there are enough reports to be of concern, and most people don't seem to know anything about it. If you do use rifle primers in your handgun loads, keep a close eye on your breech face.

As for pressure differences in 9mm, there usually isn't much to be discerned between different primers. Here is a video by Super Vel, certainly no lightweight in the ammo world: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVRGsoOr6k[/ame]

I wouldn't extrapolate the limited info from that video to mean that primers don't have much effect in ALL handgun rounds. There may be much more difference in other combos. I think that poor sealing of the primers within the pockets is by far the biggest concern.

 

[Dfish1247]

I've used them in 357 and 10mm. No issues at all. Treat them like magnum primers and you'll be fine.

 

[Dvus]

I use SRPs in my 9mm loads because I am loading for major power factor and like the stronger cup. With charge weights of CFE and Autocomp way in excess of what's listed as max (no, I won't list them here, and I won't give them out through pm) with 124 gr. bullets reaching velocities between 1450 and 1500 fps out of a 5" barrel, I want every little bit of extra insurance I can get. Standard 9mm loads get standard SPPs.
BTW, please don't try to duplicate or approach these results. It takes a fully supported chamber, a compensator and other things all working in unison to do this without blowing the gun to pieces.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I wasn't surprise seeing the velocity numbers but shocked at the pressure data because of the all the "common wisdom" talk over the years. IMO this is an excellent video which every reloader/handloader should see.

 

[DWalt]

I sure would like to see some evidence beyond your opinion that there will be gas leakage around small rifle primers used in lower pressure handgun loads. Frankly, I do not believe that for an instant.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Small pistol vs small rifle primers

I became a member of USPSA/ in 1990. That was when shooters were switching to 38 Super ammo from 45 ACP. We all learned very quickly that hot-loaded 38 Super ammo using small pistol primers was causing pierced primers. The pierced primer would sometimes stick to the firing pin causing a jammed pistol. We all switched to small rifle primers and solved the problem.

Later on USPSA lowered the power factor for open class pistols to 165 which lessened the problem. Recently open class shooters have all adopted 9mm major loads. The need for small rifle primers is now a necessity when loading 9mm major.

 

[Borderboss]

.....I am being told that this is perfectly fine to do however much of what I read says otherwise . Anyone here actually make the switch ? I am asking because my LGS has the SRP but no SPP . He's an experienced reloader and I am not . He says he's made the switch often with no issues .

There are no issues. The SRP may be a tad hotter, so if you're using a max load, back it off and try to rebuild back up. But I've seen plenty of testing that the energy from SRP and SPP is pretty much the same.

Where you will see a difference is the cup thickness. This is to prevent piercing by the firing pin in pretty hot loads. As was mentioned by S&WIowegan, we started using the SRP with .38 Super major loads in the early 1990s because of possible firing pin piercing, not because the SPP wouldn't ignite the hot loads properly.

So the main issue for you will be whether or not you pistols will ignite the SRP properly because of cup thickness.