calmex
Member
Here in Mexico, we are limited to the .380 brass for autos and the .38 Special for revolvers. We can better than duplicate .357 specs using the Elmer Keith load in .38 Special cases and it just uses a small pistol primer.
However, in fully-supported chambers in .380 1911's, to get up to a 170+ Power Factor (just for fun and games) we use a 150 grain Saeco bullet that hits around 1,125 fps from the .380 case in a 5 inch barrel. These cases are primed with small rifle primers and they don't look too bad after firing but normal CCI small pistol primers look positively scarey.
Is it an over-pressure load? Quite probably, there's no SAAMI spec for .380 cases fired in fully-supported chambers. Is it totally safe? Probably, it isn't. But we've got about half-a-dozen such guns down here and we've fired thousands of rounds of this load and it works and it does what we want it to do; it gives us pretty decent power out of a 1911 in a "legal" loading here in a country where some horse's backside in a suit or uniform sitting behind a desk in Mexico City has decided we really shouldn't have it.
We can duplicate 9 m.m. power out of 9 m.m. guns with .380 chambers all day long using regular small pistol primers but when you want to get up to .38 Super or .357 SIG power out of fully-supported chambers with the .380 acp case (don't even try with a regular-style chamber, we've been there and seen the results), using small rifle primers is advisable.
They can cause light-strikes on revolvers and striker-fired guns, but we really only use the small rifle primers on the 1911 platform with fully-supported chambers and often barrels up to 6 inches long and they give us an added safety-factor for our Super powered loads.
Some Mexican .380 loads.
1. Factory .380 acp. Good for pocket guns and works in the Glock 25, although it's power is about the same as expelled gas after a night of beer drinking. It's about a 92 power factor. Accepted as fine by Mexican IDPA, the Mexican IPSC guys call it the "Mouse Factor" and score it 5, 2, and 1 instead of the 5, 3, and 1 of Minor Caliber. It often cannot knock over Pepper-Poppers set to stay up in a light breeze.
2. The Lee 122 Grain Cone and 3.3 grains of Bullseye. This loading gets the .380 up to about a 120 power factor and works in the .380 Glock 25's factory .380 magazine. The load works well, although unless cast HARD it leads up quickly in the Glock rifling and loses accuracy. Still, we've had no blow-ups in thousands and thousands of rounds (this is the most common .380 round for beginners down here) and is referred to as ".380 Cal lite". LOA is around 1.0 which will still work in the Glock 25 magazine, or maybe .990.
3. The Lee 125 grain RN and 3.5 grains of Bullseye. One of the original ".380 Cal" rounds that duplicates 9 performance well enough but is still safe in the Glock 25 (which is a delayed-blowback, not a straight blow-back). Power factor of around 125. Can be tumble-lubed or sizing-press lubed.
4. The Lee 128 grain round nose and 3.7 grains of Bullseye. For use in 9 autos with barrels that have .380 chambers. The classic ".380 Cal" round, it duplicates 9 performance. Velocity is around 1,050 to 1,080 depending on barrel length and power factors at about 138 from the nearly ubiquitous Browning Hi-Power with a .380 barrel/chamber combination one sees now almost more than the factory-built Glock 25's. No, I do not have one myself, but it is so common it may have superceeded the Glock as the "Mexican IPSC pistol", because it really works well with the .380 Cal cartridge.
5. The first of the ".380 Super Cal" cartridges built for the 1911's with fully supported chambers. A 140 grain Saeco SWC above a powder-packed powder charge and a small-rifle primer producing 1,175 fps from a 5 inch GM and 1,210 from a 6 inch. Popular loading, very accurate. Great for shooting the PPC.
6. Not pictured. The new .380 Super Cal is a Saeco 150 grain RN doing about 1,125 fps from a 5 inch 1911 (fully supported), 1,155 from 6 inches and a nice 1,100 fps from the 4.75 inch "Nash Bridges" 1911 we recently built to play with. Small rifle primers, of course. All lead bullet loads are sized to .356
The "Nash Bridges" 1911 one of our guys had built down here. It's 4 3/4 inch barrel can barely make a 170 power factor, but it can do it. You need a stout load to make this thing work with all that weight on the end of the barrel, it's a steel comp not titanium. If one doesn't use small rifle primers you'd be apt to blow out a regular primer in the .380 case.
Most Mexican IPSC style 1911's are 5 inch -- the vast majority are 6 inch. It gets the hottest loads we can make up to .357 Sig power and we've blown nothing up yet. Knock on wood, of course. The things one has to do to get around stupid rules.
However, in fully-supported chambers in .380 1911's, to get up to a 170+ Power Factor (just for fun and games) we use a 150 grain Saeco bullet that hits around 1,125 fps from the .380 case in a 5 inch barrel. These cases are primed with small rifle primers and they don't look too bad after firing but normal CCI small pistol primers look positively scarey.
Is it an over-pressure load? Quite probably, there's no SAAMI spec for .380 cases fired in fully-supported chambers. Is it totally safe? Probably, it isn't. But we've got about half-a-dozen such guns down here and we've fired thousands of rounds of this load and it works and it does what we want it to do; it gives us pretty decent power out of a 1911 in a "legal" loading here in a country where some horse's backside in a suit or uniform sitting behind a desk in Mexico City has decided we really shouldn't have it.
We can duplicate 9 m.m. power out of 9 m.m. guns with .380 chambers all day long using regular small pistol primers but when you want to get up to .38 Super or .357 SIG power out of fully-supported chambers with the .380 acp case (don't even try with a regular-style chamber, we've been there and seen the results), using small rifle primers is advisable.
They can cause light-strikes on revolvers and striker-fired guns, but we really only use the small rifle primers on the 1911 platform with fully-supported chambers and often barrels up to 6 inches long and they give us an added safety-factor for our Super powered loads.
Some Mexican .380 loads.
1. Factory .380 acp. Good for pocket guns and works in the Glock 25, although it's power is about the same as expelled gas after a night of beer drinking. It's about a 92 power factor. Accepted as fine by Mexican IDPA, the Mexican IPSC guys call it the "Mouse Factor" and score it 5, 2, and 1 instead of the 5, 3, and 1 of Minor Caliber. It often cannot knock over Pepper-Poppers set to stay up in a light breeze.
2. The Lee 122 Grain Cone and 3.3 grains of Bullseye. This loading gets the .380 up to about a 120 power factor and works in the .380 Glock 25's factory .380 magazine. The load works well, although unless cast HARD it leads up quickly in the Glock rifling and loses accuracy. Still, we've had no blow-ups in thousands and thousands of rounds (this is the most common .380 round for beginners down here) and is referred to as ".380 Cal lite". LOA is around 1.0 which will still work in the Glock 25 magazine, or maybe .990.
3. The Lee 125 grain RN and 3.5 grains of Bullseye. One of the original ".380 Cal" rounds that duplicates 9 performance well enough but is still safe in the Glock 25 (which is a delayed-blowback, not a straight blow-back). Power factor of around 125. Can be tumble-lubed or sizing-press lubed.
4. The Lee 128 grain round nose and 3.7 grains of Bullseye. For use in 9 autos with barrels that have .380 chambers. The classic ".380 Cal" round, it duplicates 9 performance. Velocity is around 1,050 to 1,080 depending on barrel length and power factors at about 138 from the nearly ubiquitous Browning Hi-Power with a .380 barrel/chamber combination one sees now almost more than the factory-built Glock 25's. No, I do not have one myself, but it is so common it may have superceeded the Glock as the "Mexican IPSC pistol", because it really works well with the .380 Cal cartridge.
5. The first of the ".380 Super Cal" cartridges built for the 1911's with fully supported chambers. A 140 grain Saeco SWC above a powder-packed powder charge and a small-rifle primer producing 1,175 fps from a 5 inch GM and 1,210 from a 6 inch. Popular loading, very accurate. Great for shooting the PPC.
6. Not pictured. The new .380 Super Cal is a Saeco 150 grain RN doing about 1,125 fps from a 5 inch 1911 (fully supported), 1,155 from 6 inches and a nice 1,100 fps from the 4.75 inch "Nash Bridges" 1911 we recently built to play with. Small rifle primers, of course. All lead bullet loads are sized to .356
The "Nash Bridges" 1911 one of our guys had built down here. It's 4 3/4 inch barrel can barely make a 170 power factor, but it can do it. You need a stout load to make this thing work with all that weight on the end of the barrel, it's a steel comp not titanium. If one doesn't use small rifle primers you'd be apt to blow out a regular primer in the .380 case.
Most Mexican IPSC style 1911's are 5 inch -- the vast majority are 6 inch. It gets the hottest loads we can make up to .357 Sig power and we've blown nothing up yet. Knock on wood, of course. The things one has to do to get around stupid rules.
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