Smith and Wesson quality Kaput.

[RubenZ]

I think it's in a lot of peoples heads that the older 30+ year guns are better. Back then a lot of people looked at guns as just a tool to toss around, use, etc. I'm pretty sure the majority of those who bought revolvers in those days weren't running around with digital calipers looking to see if their barrel was canted .00000000000000444" to the right or left.

 

[Arik]

I think it's in a lot of peoples heads that the older 30+ year guns are better. Back then a lot of people looked at guns as just a tool to toss around, use, etc. I'm pretty sure the majority of those who bought revolvers in those days weren't running around with digital calipers looking to see if their barrel was canted .00000000000000444" to the right or left.

Not just that. Also there was no internet to run to so you wouldn't know if there were bad guns out there​.

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[RubenZ]

Not just that. Also there was no internet to run to so you wouldn't know if there were bad guns out there​.

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Exactly. You can't tell me that back in S&W prime there weren't hundreds and thousands of guns that left QC looking like **** or with something wrong. The only reason people of today are under the assumption that Older guns were way better is because the ones that have lasted this long were probably not the NORM. They were taken care of very well to last all these years looking good.

And I'm not saying older SMITHS were not good. They were GREAT. My beef is when you have new gun owners or new to Revolver owners coming in here and getting FLAK for wanting to purchase new S&W revolvers. Then the old timers come out saying don't waste your money, get -2's etc. etc. Thats simply not right.

 

[hassiman]

QUality

The older Smiths were GREAT.
But the problems I have with my 629-6 were not a matter of Thousandths. My muzzle crown had heavily burred lands and a visible semi-circular machine tool cut that had been bead blasted over. The trigger came from the factory with Negative sear engagement and the hammer would push-off. Dangerous. It had a front sight blade whose slot had been cut off-center. It had a barrel that was visibly canted, possibly so that the off-center sight blade would register properly. Just terribly sloppy work that workers on the line must have seen but didn't care. The thousandths came in when my gunsmith... trained by S & W... removed the barrel and found the frame had been mis-drilled for the barrel so it doesn't sit at 90 degrees to the frame as it should. The cylinder gap was .006 on one side and .009 on the other.
I love What Smith was. Not what it has become.

 

[Rule3]

Looking at past posts:
Seems you have had "issues" with the 629 even before you bought it.

Wanting to change the trigger out in 1/2017. Bead blast etc, etc etc.

Perhaps if you had sent the gun back to SW all these quality control issues could have been fixed at no cost.

Having sent several guns back to SW for this that or another thing they have always come through and done so in a short time frame,

629-6: Where to get the best non-MIM hammer and Trigger replacements?

Even Dillon Press's have issues

 

[hassiman]

Sorry...

The issues I had with this new gun are what they are. I sent the gun to S&W for their "Lifetime warranty" work. I detailed all of the faults I was aware of, namely the damaged and poorly finished muzzle crown, the Dangerous negative sear engagement, the canted barrel and the front sight blade. After two months at S&W the weapon came back with the muzzle refinished and the trigger corrected. Nothing was done to correct the barrel or the sight blade. I didn't find out about the barrel mount until my gunsmith took the weapon apart. I am having them corrected by an expert at my expense. My time is to valuable to waste with a gun back at S&W and not able to talk to anyone that knows what's is happening with the repair. C&C is obviously no replacement for craftsmanship and pride of workmanship.

 

[pgb205]

I've had several issues with new Performance/Pro Series revolvers in the last year. ( I sit here today waiting for the Fedex truck to bring my 986 Pro back from the factory.) I guess what bothers me ( as a consumer, engineer and retired process manager for the Navy) not so much there were manufacturing issues. That stuff happens in any manufacturing process. Whats wrong it's that they can allow easy to spot defects to slip through Quality Assurance process and get out the door without needed rework.

I can second that. My brand new MP2 pistol had broken slide stop that could have been easily spotted before shipping by just dropping the mag and racking a slide. Also broken trigger on my 627 8-shot.

Generally agree that I see way more problems with SW than with any other brand I own. I almost expect something to be wrong when picking up a new SW.

 

[pgb205]

Unfortunately four of the last six I purchased had to go back for something. One had to go back twice until I was satisfied.

2 out of 3 for me...and I still have some 'concerns' about either of the two after a return, just not enough to part with my toys for another month.

 

[RubenZ]

Quick question, why did you bother to accept the Handgun if it was so easy to see its defects?

 

[Rule3]

The issues I had with this new gun are what they are. I sent the gun to S&W for their "Lifetime warranty" work..

Perhaps but if they are as bad as you state, I have known SW to replace a gun that was not repairable, How much time did it take your Gunsmith to repair it?. You wanted a new front sight and trigger from the get go.

I guess the only other option would be to buy a Ruger or perhaps a Glock (Glocks are perfect and if not perfect enough, you can replace everything on them including the frame)

Hope your Gunsmith fixed it to your satisfaction.

 

[hassiman]

I loved ALL of my 1970s Smiths. M52 target master, M27, M29-2. Never an issue. I Love the M629-6 half lug design. Love the front sight design. My eyes are not as good as they were but hey. I get by. I didn't check the weapon as closely as I should have because I had never felt the need in the past. My mistake. Don't like MIM parts as well but if they are good from the start, no problem. Problem is that the miss-drilled barrel mount to the frame is NOT something you would see even upon close inspection. I would guess that many of you with newer guns may the problem and not even know it. Hell just set those machines going and pump out tones of frames. Thread 'em. Screw on the barrels and ship 'em out. No one mics them to see if they are true. If you are not a gunsmith how do you check?
I ma hoping my gunsmith can put on a different sight that will sit straight and he can fix the cant. But whatever. I have learned my lesson.

 

[ladder13]

Actually there's a sticky about that.

Bashing, Crying, & Whining
Note 588 likes.

I believe the OP has a legit gripe
, and conforms to the spirit, in his post so I'd let that go.

The other nonsense, and broken record postings about "they were all better back in the day and I only buy yada yada", "they're ugly", "the hole on the side" etc, is a violation of the above sticky by the boss.

I wish he'd enforce it and take out the trash once and for all.

Why people just cannot let others enjoy their new guns is beyond tiresome.

 

[ladebakk]

I feel your pain. My brand new performance center 629 was cracked from the factory. Still ticked.. They replaced it. Took 2 months and never reimbursed the fees as they promised.

 

[chief38]

Sometimes it seems when someone reports a new low quality or defective S&W purchase it seems like winning & bashing however it may just be the truth. Unfortunately it is happening all too often now! It can not and should not be ignored - ultimately WE pay the price!

Personally, I think the best way SMITH & WESSON can avoid customers reporting horror stories about their products is to step up their current poor quality and make something we can all be proud to own.

On this website, I have to believe that most of us are S&W aficionado's and would rather only have to report good things to report about their products, however that is happening less and less and more reports of defective guns are being posted. Don't shoot the messenger - fix the problem is what I suggest.

 

[Jeff 97223]

My immediate suggestion would have been to send the gun back to Smith and Wesson instead of paying a gunsmith to do what the factory would have done for free. But that's just me, I guess. I got a Model 29 in 1975 that was poorly made (gee, I guess these things can happen at any time in a company's history) and a man by the name of Roy Jinks called me on a Friday night to apologize for the condition of the gun. When I got it back it was a total masterpiece. Sometimes it just makes sense to let the manufacturer try to resolve the issue.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[DaStray]

I hear ya. Been there, done that.
I too have had problems with S&W`s, two of the three I`ve bought new having to be returned to the factory for repairs. See my thread on 4/27/17. Not trolling or bashing S&W, just telling MY experiences.
I certainly understand that problems can occur during the assembly process but that`s where quality control should come in and catch the problem before the weapon is shipped. I don`t believe that it`s any design problems though...just seems to sometimes be the execution of the design.
Don`t let some peoples negative responses bother you as some will not tolerate any perceived criticism of S&W and will make excuses for poor quality control. It`s the same with any brand like Sig, Colt, Ford Chevy...etc. Human nature I guess.
All the above being said, my 686 is still my favorite handgun which I will never part with.

 

[chief38]

Ladder13,

I can't speak for others here but fully recognize that poor quality shipments is something that has gone back to the beginning of manufacturing - be it guns or what ever. No dispute there.

I am in my 60's and have been into Smiths since I was 14 years old, and an owner of them since I was 21. The vast majority of my collection was acquired in the late 70's and 80's with some in the early 90's as well. In that 20 some odd year period I got ONE stinker. A 2" RB M10 that was so defective it could NOT be repaired. Fran Longton (A S&W Manager) took my M10 from my hands (up at the Factory of course), told me to go to lunch, and when I came back he pulled a brand new one off the line and had stamped my serial number on it. The destroyed my old one. In exactly one hour my problems were solved and I drove home a happy camper.

So over the years, ONE stinker out of all of them. Now remember, the new ones I purchased came right out of the box with no selection of different examples (for the most part) I can NOT remember any defects that I rejected a specific gun over, NEVER.

Today is a different story. There are way less humans handling product prior to shipment and the humans at the Factory today are WAY WAY LESS skilled than the employees of 40 - 50 years ago. I doubt some of the modern day employees could even recognize a minor defect! I've also been a member of this and other website for a long time now and sincerely do not remember seeing, reading about and hearing the sheer quantity of poorly manufactured, sloppy spec's, scratched and damaged guns, canted barrels, blah blah blah.

I recognize we are all "into" S&W and no one WANTS to batter the Company's name and reputation but to me it seems that they themselves are the ones responsible for this - not us consumers.

 

[ladder13]

Sigh.........reading comprehension is so lacking as is QC.
No one disputes issues with anything manufactured, except on the Sig forum they're a bit thin skinned there unable to take criticism.
For the upteenth time it's about snide comments like "the Hilary hole" and those previously mentioned. Beating a dead horse much?
Comment on issues is fine, I've already agreed on that.

I don't even own anything post the mid 90's but I like to see people enjoy their new guns without being subject to kindergarten banter.

Gee, I wonder why Lee even took the time to post a sticky.

 

[Rule3]

If anyone really thinks that SW factory or any other big name is has a bunch of Bozos working there, they are really mistaken. Many of the SW employees have been there a LONG time. They have many Master Gunsmiths.

Also if someone thinks that Gus the Gunsmith from 1950 can produce a firearm with better tolerances than a CNC machine is also mistaken, MIM parts are also NOW flawless and so tight in tolerance. Yes, when MIM first came out there were some issues

How are parts made for the AreoSpace, Auto and Medical field made?? CNC machines

How many firearms are actually produced by SW in a day, month year??

So we have one post with "reported" issues and that means that SW is "Kaput"?? Get real!

Here is part 1 of the SW performance Center there are 4 or so. Yes, it is the PC but the rest of the factory runs the same,

Also here is a video of a Sig Clone made in Slovakia (yes, it is real touching music but shows how high tech industry is today)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSwAP97SrwA[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KIZFN1q_2g[/ame]

Have a nice day!

 

[RubenZ]

Ya, that video sure doesn't seem to show a lot of so called "humans at the Factory today are WAY WAY LESS skilled than the employees of 40 - 50 years ago" employees working there. In fact those guys look to be the same employees of 40-50 years ago LOL.