Smith and Wesson said 'Don't do it!'

[IllinoisCCW]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. I did remove the flag only from my 642. I don't mind external lock hole. I have no kids that live at home and this firearm is with me 90% of the time and locked in a safe the other 10%. If I sell it or send in for repairs I can put the lock back in...very simple. I've put 500 rounds through over the last day or so. No change in function or risk of malfunction due to its removal. Great shooter.

 

[scattershot]

It's your property, after all. I don't put a lot of stock in that lawyer BS, and if it was mine, and I didn't want the lock, I'd take it out, bedwetters be damned.

If you ever do have to defend yourself, remember that you will have a lawyer, too.

Forgot to add, It's a gun. It's supposed to be dangerous.

 

[jtcarm]

Can you quote a case where this actually happened?

Yes, I sat on a jury in an attempted murder case in which the defendant used a 1911 with a deactivated grip safety. Granted this was not a self-defense shooting, and the grip safety issue was overkill as the defendant was obviously guilty and plead out just before closing arguments. Fortunately, the victim was not directly hit.

Whats more, table saw mfrs are being successfully sued for accidents caused by gross operator misuse, including user removal of safety features. If S&W is foolish enough to remove a safety device from it's own product, I suggest buying as many as you can lay hands on, they won't be around much longer.

As for personal liability, you don't have to be convicted in a criminal case or lose a civil suit to be devastated financially.

 

[Florida J Frame]

jtcarm,
You misunderstood my question. I have never heard of a case where the prosecutor used a removed lock against someone who used a firearm to defend themselves. I'm beginning to think this is just an urban legend. I'm still not sure I would do it in our litigious society but I have never read one piece of solid evidence that it has happened. I would love to hear from the lawyers that follow this forum, not for legal advice but just for their opinions.

 

[scattershot]

I sat on a murder trial once, and the only things that came up were the number of rounds (8) and the nature of the wounds (two to the groin). Other than that, there was no testimony as to caliber, brand of weapon, how many rounds it held, type of ammunition, what color of grips it had, or any of that other stuff. 8 rounds, five hits, end of story.

 

[IllinoisCCW]

I know this is getting off topic but with all the talk of what is legal and what isn't legal I have a question...and maybe it should be a new topic.

I come from a law enforcement family...from local on up to Federal. We had a family gathering last weekend and the topic of conceal carry came up. One of them said that if they were a civilian and their only concern was truly the protection of their family, he could care less what the laws were.

So my question is this...when it really comes down to the protection of your family, what would you be willing to do?

Criminals carry guns to do harm to others without worrying whether or not they will get caught. Our laws keep good people from protecting themselves and family from these bad guys who know you can't protect yourself...at least in the Communist State of Illinois.

Do you lay in bed at night worrying whether or not you will go to jail for protecting your family?

 

[blujax01]

Can you quote a case where this actually happened?

Beat me to it.

 

[hotrod150]

..... I have never heard of a case where the prosecutor used a removed lock against someone who used a firearm to defend themselves. I'm beginning to think this is just an urban legend.....

I've heard some people argue against hand-loaded ammo for self-defense use, saying that the prosecutors will tear you a new one for doing so. I wonder how many cases have gone that way? My position is that I have basically ONE load for each caliber handgun, which is used for practice, self-defense, and shooting drunkenly into the air on new years eve (for my 38 specials, it's a 158 gr lead SWC-HP, aka the "FBI load"). What else would I have loaded in the gun?

 

[gdauth]

Of course S&W told you not to do it, and that IS purely a legal precaution on their part.

As noted above, ATF could not care less what you do with that part, or any other part in the gun, as long as you don't make it into a full-auto firearm & don't dink with the serial number.
Denis

However, if he removes or disables the lock, he will be job security for some lawyer, especially since S&W told him not to do it. He has posted the evidence against himself on this site as have the rest of you that have admitted to removing or disabling the locks on their revolvers. Once you press "Submit Reply" it is out there forever. If there is an accident involving a modified revolver, the owner will be legal toast.

 

[photoman]

However, if he removes or disables the lock, he will be job security for some lawyer, especially since S&W told him not to do it. He has posted the evidence against himself on this site as have the rest of you that have admitted to removing or disabling the locks on their revolvers. Once you press "Submit Reply" it is out there forever. If there is an accident involving a modified revolver, the owner will be legal toast.

OK. You've made your point. Now back it up with evidence. Otherwise, it's nothing more than your opinion.

 

[gdauth]

OK. You've made your point. Now back it up with evidence. Otherwise, it's nothing more than your opinion.

Bit hostile aren't we? Much of what is posted is opinion and you are free to ignore any and all opinions. What I said does not involve criminal law, but civil law. There are enough people that are hostile to guns and gun owners that it is my opinion that it pays to be prudent. You don't have to lose a civil case to end up bankrupt from the legal fees.

 

[IllinoisCCW]

I think everyone is missing the point. I took a potentially unreliable firearm used for personal protection and made it reliable. If I'm brought before a judge because I protected my family...no problem. Better that than burying my family because the firearm inadvertently locked due to a faulty internal lock.

I WILL protect my family by any means necessary regardless of what the law says or doesn't say. I will accept the consequences for doing so.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Do you lay in bed at night worrying whether or not you will go to jail for protecting your family?

No .

 

[IllinoisCCW]

No .

Thank you!

 

[shawn mccarver]

Not possibly, but absolutely creates a liability for them, and for you if you ever shoot a bad guy with it. A defense or tort lawyer would have a field day with that one "oh, so you deliberately disabled the safety mechanism.... "

If you think the lock compromises function, sell it and get a pre-lock.

The other side of the coin: The internal lock is a storage device, not a safety in the sense of a user activated safety which is carried "safe" and unlocked the instant you draw the gun.

"I took out the key lock because there are documented cases of failure and I wanted to be absolutely sure my self-defense weapon functioned as intended. Since I removed the internal lock, I store the weapon in a gun vault when it is not on my person, and that is better than the key lock anyway."

Your witness.

 

[GKC]

I have been without a revolver for a long time, and today I saw a Lew Horton 629 at a good price, and decided that I wanted it. It has the lock. I don't plan on carrying it, but I still do plan on removing the lock.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well, I solved the problem. I just waited and waited and guess what-I now have a 638-2!
Who can tell me the difference twixt a 638-2 and a 638-3????

 

[IllinoisCCW]

Well, I solved the problem. I just waited and waited and guess what-I now have a 638-2!
Who can tell me the difference twixt a 638-2 and a 638-3????

Saw this in another thread:

638 introduced in 1989
638-1 with minor changes also in 1989
638-2 with magnum frame in 1996
638-3 with internal lock in 2002 (current version)

 

[Cruiser RN]

I just basically ignore the darn thing and get on with it.For Carry it is one of my Detective Specials or Cobra with a tactical reload.You have 20% more ammo in each cylinder,no lock, and none of them have ever failed.With me the barrels have blown off 2 640's the barrel canted to the right twice with my Model 36,but the internal lock has never failed LOL.

 

[carl3989]

I also don't like the lock, but of the 4 Smiths that I have with it, I've never had a problem.