Smith and Wesson said 'Don't do it!'

[guzzi]

Interesting thread. Just bought my first "lock" S&W a 438 brand new from Buds. This little gun has a great fit, lock-up and cylinder/barrel gap. Put 100 rounds thru it this weekend and it worked flawlessly. It replaces my Model 38 which served me well until a frame flaw broke it. I am the orignal owner and S&W sent me a call tag to send it in. Could not live without an Airweight, thus the purchase of the 438. Now I see that S&W lists the 438 as "no longer manufactured". What do you suppose they will do for me on my M38?? I love all my Smiths, we will see.....Thanks all for listening to my concerns! jb

 

[Stainz]

The 438, a black 638, may not be available currently - it's info currently states 'Archive' on the S&W site. The regular 638, SKU #163070 & MSRP $449, won't go away.

I have many IL-equipped S&Ws - and have never had a problem with the IL. Little wonder, as after ten plus years of producing IL-equipped revolvers, S&W has yet to spend the first dime defending it's inclusion in court. In this litigious society, where making hot coffee can cost you a fortune, that says something.

My IL-equipped 642-2, bought 2/07, is always loaded and never locked up. It's in my pocket or, in the middle of the night, in the nightstand. I EDC it 24/7 - in church, at the grocers, or cutting the grass... or when the grandkids visit and the other loaded firearms are locked away. Aperiodically, at the range, I present it from my pocket and rapidly discharge it, reload it, and discharge it again - always shocked at it's accuracy - stock springs and grip - with Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWCs - never a problem. Well, I have shot up my carry ammo and had to load it with plinkers to make the trek home - to clean it and reload it properly. To me, the unsightly IL is not a paranoia producer - but YMMV, to each their own, etc.

Stainz

 

[smith 629]

If anyone has the internal lock flag, or complete lock system that they have taken out of a 629-6 that they don't want or is going to throw away I would appreciate it if they would let me send them the money for shipping and send it to me.
Just PM me and I will get back to you.
Thank you very much.

 

[Gorenut]

Not to turn this into yet another "lock" thread,but why would anyone be the least bit surprised that someone at S&W said don't do it.

They installed it and I'm sure they don't want to tell people it's ok to disable primarily for legal reasons I'd guess.

I own some with the lock others without it. One think I'm sure of after
45 years of shooting revolvers far more have locked up due to the extractor rod being loose, powder grains stuck under the extractor star, and backed out primers.

I'm willing to admit the lock "could" fail but others things can go wrong with a revolver as well.

Dave

Sums up the way I see it. I've had a GP100 sieze up before and they definitely don't have locks.

Someone mentioned Ayoob's outlook on the locks. Here is the article:
Massad Ayoob » Blog Archive » INTERNAL GUN LOCKS

Essentially happens very VERY rarely. Full violent recoil on a lighter model gun (like the Scandium or Titanium models) have a higher probability of it happening.. but still not likely. My guess is, most people who might have had it engage during inappropriate times, maybe the locks weren't disengaged all the way. All the issues pointed out in the quote above are more likely to happen than the IL malfunctioning. That said, I still prefer no locks, but will not pass up a lock model if it comes around at a good price.

 

[DonD]

Your internet "handle" seems contradictory since there is to the best of my knowledge, no legal CCW in IL. Am I correct?

Hope you get your gun the way you want it. Don

 

[BBQLS1]

I'm sorry, the protection of me and my family is more important than what the ATF thinks.

Doesn't really matter for the lock issue, but wouldn't breaking the law (especially if the ATF was involved), possibly put your family at risk?

 

[notsofast]

I've got 2 lock guns and 2 no lock, never think about it when shooting it and hope it never catches me at the wrong time. Ofcourse I didn't install my alarm until my garage was burglerized when I was away...hmmm?

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

I didn't look at all the responses but here is a Youtube video explaining how to remove the lock: S&W Internal Lock Removal - YouTube

 

[remat457]

To me there is zero benefit and potentially risk for failure (no matter how small). Unfortunately there are a lot of models that I do want but can't get without the lock. To me removing the lock is a valid option. What S&W says hardly constitutes legal advice (except maybe their liability and your warranty entitlement).

Know your locality - what is OK in one area may not be in another.

 

[pulpwood007]

I didn't look at all the responses but here is a Youtube video explaining how to remove the lock: S&W Internal Lock Removal - YouTube

Excellent video. I'm going for it!

Is the 442/642 inner parts configuration any different than this 640? I would expect them to be exactly the same.

Anyone who has done this modification experience any surprises during the disassembly/assembly?

 

[Doug M.]

Doesn't really matter for the lock issue, but wouldn't breaking the law (especially if the ATF was involved), possibly put your family at risk?

*
Refer back to my response of 10/14/2012. I do this stuff for a living.

ATF has nothing to do with these locks or local laws about carrying, and in fact no authority to do anything about any alleged violations of such laws. I've never seen any sign they care, either. I sometimes deal with ATF agents professionally, and these are all cases in which I see an offender in a report who might be a good candidate for Federal prosecution as an ACC or some such. Their hammer is so much bigger than ours when dealing with these really bad actors that I try like heck to feed those cases to the "local" (100+ miles away) agents, and have more than once made all the copies of the necessary stuff and hand delivered it on my own time.

The lock would have nothing to do with the legal analysis of a shooting in the criminal context (justification), or with regard to a negligent discharge. It would only be relevant in a negligent storage case, and if you have a loaded firearm it needs to be on your person as a general rule. The only time the purported utility of the lock might matter is if one is already doing a poor job of choosing storage practices, and is in need of repeated application of a boot in the gluteals. AFAIK, the lock is only supposed to be used on an empty gun.

I have my preferences and rules about how I address the lock issue, but that's a discussion that runs the risk of getting the thread locked.

 

[JSR III]

I still feel that there are plenty of older S&W's out there that were produced before the lock that can be used for personal protection if needed.

Personally, at 3AM, in the dark, without my glasses, I would not want to be fishing through my nightstand drawer to unlock my revolver, let alone find the key, or push the buttons on a drawer safe when my life was potentially in danger. I think that the sound of a 12 guage being racked back is much more threatening anyway. Besides, aiming with a scatter gun is much less challanging under the conditions described above.

As far as the legal part is concerned, worry about that after you have defended you and your families lives.

As the saying goes, "Better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6".

 

[Camster]

I can see where the lock could be a good thing. If I had young kids around the house I would lock the lock when the gun was stored-- kids will be kids & that way if one did find it and find ammo to load it he couldn't shoot it.
That said, I wasn't too worried about the lock self-engaging but didn't want to take the chance and so I disabled the lock & removed all possibility of that happening. I wold prefer a no-lock model & in fact I do prefer my old pinned-barrel Chiefs, but I found this one for sale at a great price so I just had to snap it up. Of all the guns I own, it's the most logical one to carry-- but my old 2" RB Chief gets the most carry time anyways. The 442 makes a great car gun though!

If you own guns,especially handguns,you should invest in a safe.Unless one is glued to your hip,guns belong in a safe,especially if kids are around.If a kid wanders outside with a gun,no one is going to be thinking about whether he has a lock model,if it is locked,etc.,he is perceived as a threat,and someone else might react badly.
When your house is burglared,as mine once was,everything in the safe was secure.Thieves will pass on long guns,but handguns aren't ignored.
I have a couple of lock models.Like most of us here,they will never see a key.