Guys - thanks for all the input - I've gotten good information that has me thinking I should go out and look at the P226, P229 models and before I buy anything I should check out 45acp and the 1911 models, which I never considered thinking they were to large to carry on a regular basis. I should at least look everything over before ruling them out. I appreciate all the input, that is one of the things I really like about the forum. Thanks.
Smith vs. Sig
- Thread starter Pete99004
- Start date
I traded my Sig P229 .40 for a S&W 3913NL. Nothing was wrong with the Sig, it was a great gun. However, the 3913 made for a better CCW. I like Sig, but for the price I would chose an used S&W 3rd Gen. I feel that the old S&W's are just as good as Sig. The only advantage I can find of Sig over S&W is availability of holsters and accessories.
Snapping Twig
Member
Started back in the early 80's with a 586, then got a 29-2 and shortly thereafter in 87 I got a P220. Used that P220 to defend my family and we're alive today because of it.
My P220 has been beyond stellar. No exageration, no misfires, FTF, FTRB, nothing. Shoots anything I feed it.
I've had a 1911 for the past 3 years. Traded my first (Kimber) for a DW CBOB. The CBOB is at least the equal to the P220 in reliability, but more accurate.
I'll never part with the 220 - NEVER.
That said, you can't go wrong with a Sig or an S&W. You SHOULD own both - and a DW 1911.
My P220 has been beyond stellar. No exageration, no misfires, FTF, FTRB, nothing. Shoots anything I feed it.
I've had a 1911 for the past 3 years. Traded my first (Kimber) for a DW CBOB. The CBOB is at least the equal to the P220 in reliability, but more accurate.
I'll never part with the 220 - NEVER.
That said, you can't go wrong with a Sig or an S&W. You SHOULD own both - and a DW 1911.
My original service weapon was a Sig P226. It was absolutely awful in the NYPD DAO specs. Trigger pull was half a mile long and you almost needed two hands to make the trip. I once heard a range instructor say, "they took a Cadillac and turned it into a Yugo." After about 8 months I replaced it with a 5946 and haven't been happier.
I've since converted the Sig to retail specs and it is quiet a good pistol. Stupidly accurate and fun to shoot fast. Besides some rusting issues in its previous life as my service pistol, it is a very high quality weapon. I think it has a slight edge on my S&Ws in fit and finish. Not a tool mark to be found.
I like my Sig a lot. I fought the urge to get a P6 hard. I'm fighting the urge to get a P228. I also appreciate the fact that they are still made of metal.
I've since converted the Sig to retail specs and it is quiet a good pistol. Stupidly accurate and fun to shoot fast. Besides some rusting issues in its previous life as my service pistol, it is a very high quality weapon. I think it has a slight edge on my S&Ws in fit and finish. Not a tool mark to be found.
I like my Sig a lot. I fought the urge to get a P6 hard. I'm fighting the urge to get a P228. I also appreciate the fact that they are still made of metal.
Spotteddog
Member
Never owned a Sig and having missed the Glock/Beretta craze, I had no preconceived notions what a hi-cap should feel like? But after an adult lifetime with 1911's when looking for my first Tupperware, the Sig's and M&P's were the only things that fit my particular paws as well as the 1911's had. So the Sig's ended up the only serious selection competition the M&P line had. I'd have been just as happy with either I suppose?
I see my local dealer has a Sig P226-RNS NICKEL - can't find anything online about this model - does anyone here know anything about it? Nice looking weapon. I'm going out to look at SA's today...leaving my credit card at home!!!
JamesArthur60
US Veteran
I own a 3913 and a P229, both 9mm. Both are quality automatic firearms. If they were on a table, loaded and TSHTF, I'd grab the SigSauer. Just personal thing, either one would work.
2000Z-71
Member
I've got quite a few Sigs and they are great guns. Sig has had a couple of issues in the past; P238 magazines, P238 safeties, internal extractors on P220 Carry models, and numerous 1911 issues in different manufacturing runs.
A Sig P239 is probably the gun that I carry the most when I want more than a j-frame in the pocket. The single stack design really helps with concealment. I also have a P229 and a couple of P226's. They have all been 100% reliable. I did have a P220 Carry with a love/hate relationship. Loved the balance and accuracy of the gun, hated the reliability. After 3 trips to the factory Sig could still not fix the last round failure to feed from the magazine issue. it's a common problem with the internal extractor P220 Carries. They have since revised their design to an external extractor and fixed the problem. i will probably get another 220 Carry in the future.
Unless you do a lot of research and know what you are looking for, I'd suggest avoiding the Sig 1911's. Their first run looked good on paper, very high quality aftermarket parts. The problem was Sig discovered that they could not take aftermarket parts from a variety of suppliers and assemble them on a production line, they require hand fitting. Sig transitioned to making a lot of their componments in-house on their next run and the quality and reliability were greatly improved. These are the 1911's from Sig that you would need to look for. On their latest run, Sig has transitioned to a lot of MIM parts and the quality and reliability has really gone down hill.
There are a lot of complaints on the Sig board. A lot of them are justified by some of the boneheaded decisions and handling of them that Sig has made recently; ie: 238, 220 Carry 1911, and 250. There is also a sentiment like here on the S&W board by some that "They don't make them like they used to..." Stick with the classic P-series pistols as well as the Sig Pro series and you'll be fine.
A Sig P239 is probably the gun that I carry the most when I want more than a j-frame in the pocket. The single stack design really helps with concealment. I also have a P229 and a couple of P226's. They have all been 100% reliable. I did have a P220 Carry with a love/hate relationship. Loved the balance and accuracy of the gun, hated the reliability. After 3 trips to the factory Sig could still not fix the last round failure to feed from the magazine issue. it's a common problem with the internal extractor P220 Carries. They have since revised their design to an external extractor and fixed the problem. i will probably get another 220 Carry in the future.
Unless you do a lot of research and know what you are looking for, I'd suggest avoiding the Sig 1911's. Their first run looked good on paper, very high quality aftermarket parts. The problem was Sig discovered that they could not take aftermarket parts from a variety of suppliers and assemble them on a production line, they require hand fitting. Sig transitioned to making a lot of their componments in-house on their next run and the quality and reliability were greatly improved. These are the 1911's from Sig that you would need to look for. On their latest run, Sig has transitioned to a lot of MIM parts and the quality and reliability has really gone down hill.
There are a lot of complaints on the Sig board. A lot of them are justified by some of the boneheaded decisions and handling of them that Sig has made recently; ie: 238, 220 Carry 1911, and 250. There is also a sentiment like here on the S&W board by some that "They don't make them like they used to..." Stick with the classic P-series pistols as well as the Sig Pro series and you'll be fine.
DJINCO
US Veteran
I got the Sig bug and bought a 226 in 40 S&W. I really like it. At first I was concerned about the thick grip but I have become fond of it.
I tried the 229, 226 and 220 before deciding on the 226.
Your own opinions may vary.
I tried the 229, 226 and 220 before deciding on the 226.
Your own opinions may vary.
scooter123
Member
First, if your considering a 1911 pistol, get a Smith, Sig's 1911 series has had some issues with reliability. You'll pay more for an S&W but you'll get a great 1911.
I'll also point out that Sig's Customer service in the past year has been downright awful. However, recently they have been improving in this area but I don't think they will ever approach Smith's Customer Service.
Sig has also made some real Marketing blunders in the past year. First was last spring when they announced that they would be shipping the civilian guns with only one magazine due to a shortage of magazines from their supplier. While they were doing this they also didn't offer any compensation to their customers. That only lasted for a few months before all the complaints made them see their error, however there are a lot of these one magazine packages still on dealers shelves. More recently they have shifted to using polymer guide rods and single strand springs in some models, which is nothing except simple cost cutting that has no place on a gun as expensive as a Sig Sauer.
That said, the P225, P226, P228, P229, P239, and external extractor or German P220's are the most reliable semi's you can find. Quite simply, Sig owners put up with this crap because they really are splendid pistols. They are accurate, reliable, and very easy to shoot well. In addition, they are also very simple to work on. In terms of function, the only complaint that I would make is that the DA trigger on the DA/SA trigger set is very gritty when new and it takes at least 300 rounds of pure DA shooting, plus a lot of dry firing to smooth it out.
BTW, I have a P239-40 with over 1000 rounds on it and not one single malfunction of any description. I also have the P229-40 Elite Stainless with about 600 rounds through it and not one single malfunction, however the DA trigger on it is still fairly gritty. I'll also note that the grip on a double stack Sig is fat enough that it will take some getting used to, however that fat grip does make them soft shooting guns. As for the accuracy, I have managed to shoot sub 2 inch groups with both at 60 feet using a hard bench as a support. While that's not Bullseye accuracy, it is very good for a combat handgun.
I'll also point out that Sig's Customer service in the past year has been downright awful. However, recently they have been improving in this area but I don't think they will ever approach Smith's Customer Service.
Sig has also made some real Marketing blunders in the past year. First was last spring when they announced that they would be shipping the civilian guns with only one magazine due to a shortage of magazines from their supplier. While they were doing this they also didn't offer any compensation to their customers. That only lasted for a few months before all the complaints made them see their error, however there are a lot of these one magazine packages still on dealers shelves. More recently they have shifted to using polymer guide rods and single strand springs in some models, which is nothing except simple cost cutting that has no place on a gun as expensive as a Sig Sauer.
That said, the P225, P226, P228, P229, P239, and external extractor or German P220's are the most reliable semi's you can find. Quite simply, Sig owners put up with this crap because they really are splendid pistols. They are accurate, reliable, and very easy to shoot well. In addition, they are also very simple to work on. In terms of function, the only complaint that I would make is that the DA trigger on the DA/SA trigger set is very gritty when new and it takes at least 300 rounds of pure DA shooting, plus a lot of dry firing to smooth it out.
BTW, I have a P239-40 with over 1000 rounds on it and not one single malfunction of any description. I also have the P229-40 Elite Stainless with about 600 rounds through it and not one single malfunction, however the DA trigger on it is still fairly gritty. I'll also note that the grip on a double stack Sig is fat enough that it will take some getting used to, however that fat grip does make them soft shooting guns. As for the accuracy, I have managed to shoot sub 2 inch groups with both at 60 feet using a hard bench as a support. While that's not Bullseye accuracy, it is very good for a combat handgun.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the 220ST-an excellent gun
Frizzman
US Veteran
Either
I seems the Sig 1911's are like Rodney Dangerfield, they "don't get no respect". I know they had some reliability issues but it seems they have improved that. I have found that most all makes of 1911's can have reliability and other issues. I had one of the much admired Colt Series 70's back in the 1970's and it wasn't reliable even with ball ammo.
Anyway, I got a Sig Revolution Compact C3 recently and have been quite pleased with it. It has been 100% in function and feeds anything I have given it. Its very accurate too. It has an alloy frame and the weight isn't an issue for me. I do carry a all steel, 5" 1911 frequently though. I was skeptical but it has proven to be an excellent 1911.
I have had a good many Sigs...220, 239, 228, 229 and a couple of their Custom Shop pistols. They were all 100% and were plenty accurate. I could just never get comfortable with the DA/SA trigger and lack of a safety(Yeah, I know, I know"). I never dealt with their service dept.
I have had a good many second and third geberation Smith autos also and they have all been good pistols. Still, I just never liked the DA/SA trigger. That's why I stick to the 1911/BHP platform or sometimes the plastic stuff...tomato/tomahto I guess...
I seems the Sig 1911's are like Rodney Dangerfield, they "don't get no respect". I know they had some reliability issues but it seems they have improved that. I have found that most all makes of 1911's can have reliability and other issues. I had one of the much admired Colt Series 70's back in the 1970's and it wasn't reliable even with ball ammo.
Anyway, I got a Sig Revolution Compact C3 recently and have been quite pleased with it. It has been 100% in function and feeds anything I have given it. Its very accurate too. It has an alloy frame and the weight isn't an issue for me. I do carry a all steel, 5" 1911 frequently though. I was skeptical but it has proven to be an excellent 1911.
I have had a good many Sigs...220, 239, 228, 229 and a couple of their Custom Shop pistols. They were all 100% and were plenty accurate. I could just never get comfortable with the DA/SA trigger and lack of a safety(Yeah, I know, I know"). I never dealt with their service dept.
I have had a good many second and third geberation Smith autos also and they have all been good pistols. Still, I just never liked the DA/SA trigger. That's why I stick to the 1911/BHP platform or sometimes the plastic stuff...tomato/tomahto I guess...
scooter123
Member
My S&W's are all revolvers, which I almost always shoot in double action. I got into revolvers because I wanted to improve my double action skills with my P239, which is my carry gun. Decocking between shots with the Sig was a pain and there is no way to practice DA rapid fire with DA/SA pistol. Shooting revolvers solved that problem and it also greatly improved my trigger stroke. I also found that I really enjoy the challenge that shooting a wheelgun in rapid fire presents, so I now have 2 S&W's and 2 Sig's. Now, I don't even notice the trigger on my Sig's, I just shoot them well.
Bottomline, if you want to improve with a DA/SA trigger, get a wheelgun. I run 96 rounds through my 610 on every range trip to warm up. After doing that, the trigger on my Sig's are a piece of cake to shoot with.
Please - tell me all about them...by the way - what were you doing on the forum at 5am?
RedCardinal
Member
I have too many S&Ws and two Sigs. My two sigs are a P229 and a P226 - eash has a 9mm, 357 Sig and 40 S&W barrel. They also have the SRT (short reset trigger), night sights and high capacity mags (up to 20 in 9mm). Never had a failure. How much more versatility and reliability could you want. I like them very much. On the other hand, the closest S&W to this versatility is my Performance Center 3566 Compact with both the 356 TSW and 9MM barrels. None are in 357 Sig, but seven are in 10mm. Oh! How I wish I could get a 357 Sig barrel for my S&W SS 40s. Most are Performance Center models, and all that have been shot are faultless on performance. IMHO S&W has the best looking and handling autos with a suitable model for most any purpose. I also shoot the H&K, Colt 10mm & 45ACP, Browning and the Glock. That is enough variety to validate the overall choice but also to choose from for a particular mission.
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