Smith & Wesson Factory Repair

[OngNoi]

Gentlemen,

I have a model 17-9 that I took in trade from a friend. It seems to be very inaccurate. I have not been able to get better than 2in groups at 15yds from a rested position. I have compared it back to back with a single six I have. The SS will shoot into an inch or less under identical conditions.

I've tried 10 or more brands of 22 ammo in the M17 and it doesn't like any of them. I tried reduced power springs. I even mounted a red dot sight. Nothing has helped so far.

In your experience, would Smith and Wesson charge for inspection/work if needed? I'm not the original owner.

Best,
Brett

 

[HJBM&P22Custom]

I have found S&W to be very good to work with and I would just suggest you give them a call to their customer service group and ask them.

 

[DixieRanger]

What 'repair' are you expecting/wanting? Accuracy job? If not warranty think would be charges if they even do accurizing. You'll get better/more thoughts am sure. Will watch to see...

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[kev74]

S&W has a lifetime warranty.

Give them a call and see what they say. They might even cover shipping.

 

[JohnRippert]

Wonder if it may just have lead build up in the barrel.

 

[e3mrk]

I sent my Model 29-3 to them and it came back quickly and repaired right.

 

[steelslaver]

I would first try it firing 5 shot groups using one chamber at a time. If several single chambers will not group it is likely the barrel. Poor forcing cone or muzzle. If several group well it likely the cylinder especially if the groups move from chamber to chamber.

I don't know how much the factory will do to shrink the group, but it is worth a shot. You may get better results from them with some data showing what the likely problem is.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I have usually found the cause of my accuracy problems in the mirror. I am more accurate with some of my firearms than others.

 

[TheTinMan]

I would first try it firing 5 shot groups using one chamber at a time. If several single chambers will not group it is likely the barrel. Poor forcing cone or muzzle. If several group well it likely the cylinder especially if the groups move from chamber to chamber.

I don't know how much the factory will do to shrink the group, but it is worth a shot. You may get better results from them with some data showing what the likely problem is.

Thank you. I would not have thought about that method to isolate an accuracy problem with a revolver.

A Lewis Lead Remover might be a good approach for the OP. I have a 1930s Colt Officers Model 22 that is nicely accurate when clean but it does get lead build up fairly quickly.

 

[DixieRanger]

Thinkin true test of accuracy is Ransom rest to see if shooter or firearm?

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[S&W-Keeper]

Not trying to insult your shooting ability.Let a buddy try it. I have ran into this myself with some of the guns I have.

 

[OngNoi]

Thanks for all of the great responses! Trying same chamber groups is a very good idea. I will try that.

I have cleaned lead buildup carefully, hasn't seemed to help. I have also had a friend, who is a very good pistol shot, shoot it for groups - same results. I do not have access to a Ransom rest, unfortunately.

I do think that a target oriented gun should be more accurate than this one is.

I will give S&W a call, it's worth a try.

Best,
Brett

 

[Krogen]

What does the crown look like? Dinged? Damaged from exuberant cleaning? Muzzle damage can easily happen with revolvers since you can't clean them from the breech. And 22 caliber is the toughest to do right; there's little room between rod and bore.

 

[OngNoi]

As far as I can tell it's fine. Very good point, BTW.

 

[MiketheTraveler]

I am also interested in the outcome...

 

[OngNoi]

I'll post here as things develop. I plan to shoot groups by chamber before I call S&W.

 

[OngNoi]

I shot a quick two shot group by cylinder today, pic attached. I think there's helpful information here. All cylinders shot into the lower left quad - except cylinder 4 that shot into the lower RIGHT quad.

Bullets from three of the cylinders appear to be keyholing. Cylinder 5 looks the worst.

Amy ideas about what May be up here?

[/url][/IMG]

 

[OngNoi]

Double post

 

[BC38]

I shot a quick two shot group by cylinder today, pic attached. I think there's helpful information here. All cylinders shot into the lower left quad - except cylinder 4 that shot into the lower RIGHT quad.

Bullets from three of the cylinders appear to be keyholing. Cylinder 5 looks the worst.

Amy ideas about what May be up here?

[/url][/IMG]

Just curious, but why only 5 cylinders. Doesn't the M17 have 6?

 

[Patrick L]

My thoughts exactly. Why no 6th?

Just for laughs now, try shooting 4 shot groups with chambers 1-4, since they all seem to print lower left.

And check #6 while you're at it.

 

[Tex1001]

Bullets from three of the cylinders appear to be keyholing. Cylinder 5 looks the worst.

Amy ideas about what May be up here?

I would suspect cylinder throats too tight.

 

[steelslaver]

What can you expect?

These are fired at 20 yards using my home built Ransom type rest. I shot from each chamber

a 17-3

\
a 4 screw K22

an I frame with a 4" barrel

a 4" 5 screw K 22

\
a 5 screw K22

a model 18-4 with a model 53 barrel installed

These were 38 specials from 3 different guns

A model 15 wearing a 6" Python barrel\

 

[DixieRanger]

Help understand relationship of individual cylinders with accuracy. Why different bullet impacts by numbered cylinders? Once detonated and thru forcing cone in barrel what difference does what cylinder it left have to do with bullet impact? Guess need more education on cylinder/barrel relationship...

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[Inland7-45]

Factory Repair

Gentlemen,

I have a model 17-9 that I took in trade from a friend. It seems to be very inaccurate. I have not been able to get better than 2in groups at 15yds from a rested position. I have compared it back to back with a single six I have. The SS will shoot into an inch or less under identical conditions.

I've tried 10 or more brands of 22 ammo in the M17 and it doesn't like any of them. I tried reduced power springs. I even mounted a red dot sight. Nothing has helped so far.

In your experience, would Smith and Wesson charge for inspection/work if needed? I'm not the original owner.

Best,
Brett

Since the 17-9 Classic is a current model the factory should still have barrels and cylinders. This is the advantage of having a current or recently discontinued model. Critical parts will still be available unlike for the older K-22s like mine.

The suggestion from our fellow forum member to isolate the problem is a good one. After doing that I would contact S&W customer service. If you decide to return the gun they will send you an RMA # and FedEx shipper at their expense.

I would ask the Customer Service Rep what is considered acceptable accuracy for a new K-22 and let them know that you expect better accuracy from this gun than what you are getting now.


Good Luck

 

[OngNoi]

Thanks for all the great insights. I plan to do careful five shot groups by cylinder then a group with one shot from all cylinders. I'll then get in touch with S&W and see what they have to say.

BTW, is there anyone that provides 22 cal cylinder uniforming as an aftermarket service?

Best,
Brett

 

[steelslaver]

Help understand relationship of individual cylinders with accuracy. Why different bullet impacts by numbered cylinders? Once detonated and thru forcing cone in barrel what difference does what cylinder it left have to do with bullet impact? Guess need more education on cylinder/barrel relationship...

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Because . A cylinder chamber with undersized or over sized throats as well as any misalignment will effect the alignment of bullet during the jump from cylinder to forcing cone and how it initially engages rifling. Any inconsistency there will slightly effect impact. There is a lot more to it than just going though the barrel. A slight bit of garbage in gives a bit of garbage out

While it is much more pronounced than a precision bench rest gun consider these factors which will effect 100yd accuracy even with the very best premium grade barrels with a single chamber

Primer flash hole size and premium grade primers

Neck sized only so case closely fits the chamber it was previously fired in

Case necks are turned to make sure that the thickness is 100 uniform all the way around.

Premium grade bullets that are individually weight and sorted to within .0005 for ogive length

All that effects accuracy before the bullet leaves a single chamber

Now think what must happen if using 6 different chambers and one or more chambers are reamed a bit off or the stop notch is a bit off and the bullet nose hits the forcing cone slightly different

I for one find it fascinating that revolvers get the accuracy they do using a cylinder with 6 chambers held in alignment by a stop that must have enough clearance to quickly move in the frame slot and pop into its notch. The forcing cone helps align everything as the bullet makes the jump from throat to barrel, but a lot of true precision is missing there. Because of it revolvers will never approach the accuracy of single chamber fixed barrel guns. My XP100 bolt action pistols will shoot groups at 100 yards that are 1/2 the size that any of my revolvers will at 20 yards.

 

[DixieRanger]

Wow, lot to digest. Thanks for the time to explain...

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