Smith & Wesson Model 19 - The mystery of the WHITE (!) Baughman ramp insert

My guess is that the white insert of your Model 19 is not S&W factory work. Just judging from the pictures, it appears the depth of the dovetail is not typical for factory work (too shallow).

Over the years I’ve seen a few S&Ws with white inserts, presumably since the sight stands out nicely against a black silhouette target. I have an old 5-screw .44 Magnum, with such a white insert front sight, that I am told was carried by a lawman in the southwest. The gun shows quite a bit of holster wear, but no serious abuse. It seems obvious it has traveled a lot of miles.
 
Bonjour French Grumpy Bear, and bienvenu to the Forum! Irregardless of what we find out about the front sight insert, congratulations on acquiring a very nice Model 19-3 with the box and goodies. It appears to be almost ANIB and in excellent condition. From what I've seen from other Forum members living in Europe (Italy, Switzerland, France, etc.), it seems that there are quite a few excellent condition vintage S&W revolvers over there. And the selling prices are often much cheaper than we can find them here in the USA. IMO, the white insert is aftermarket but well done. Bottom line- who cares? You can always change it if you prefer a different color. Apprecier!
 
Bonjour French Grumpy Bear, and bienvenu to the Forum! Irregardless of what we find out about the front sight insert, congratulations on acquiring a very nice Model 19-3 with the box and goodies. It appears to be almost ANIB and in excellent condition. From what I've seen from other Forum members living in Europe (Italy, Switzerland, France, etc.), it seems that there are quite a few excellent condition vintage S&W revolvers over there. And the selling prices are often much cheaper than we can find them here in the USA. IMO, the white insert is aftermarket but well done. Bottom line- who cares? You can always change it if you prefer a different color. Apprecier!

Hello Hawg Rider,

Thank you for your appreciation of this 19-3, it is indeed in excellent condition and I acquired it without any hesitation, whatever my questions about the insert (my aim concerning the insert is to get to know this gun and its history better).

There are some great opportunities in France and Europe to acquire vintage S&Ws in excellent condition (although they are far from all in collector's condition). And indeed, here, prices for such revolvers are generally much lower than in the USA. But this is most likely the consequence of a much more restricted and regulated market than in the USA.
Here, except in a professional capacity, you are only authorized to own firearms if you are a hunter or marksman, and the authorities have given you authorization (after investigation, and valid for 5 years). If your authorization is not renewed, or if its renewal is refused, you must deposit your weapons with a gunsmith and sell them (you cannot keep them or use them). In our country, the notion of ownership is very relative when it comes to weapons, and this does not encourage the emergence of a lively secondary market... Hence the relatively moderate prices...
 
My wife and I are traveling to Italy in 2025. Maybe I should bring gun money and ship them home

I'm not familiar with the Italian market, I just know that the 9x19 Luger is banned for civilians there (whereas the .45ACP is authorized...). A priori, as far as revolvers are concerned, the Italian market shouldn't be very different from the French market, i.e. fairly limited (there, the maximum number of weapons a sports shooter can own is even limited to 6, compared with 15 in France). On the other hand, if import costs in the USA are as high as they are to bring a gun from the USA to Europe, you may be in for a disappointment. For example, from what I've gathered from the experience of a few people, importing a revolver bought in the USA for $3,000 will cost you approximately EUR1,500!

If I were you, I'd bring back clothes and food! ;-)
 
Last edited:
I have one of the Brownell kits for installing the inserts. I will have to go down to the vault and check but don't remember white material in the kit. I used it to replace inserts when I worked on guns. Seems hard to knock one out...but some people can do most anything they don't want to. Looking at the insert...it seems to be slightly higher in the ramp than the plastic inserts on the guns I have here at the desk
 
I have one of the Brownell kits for installing the inserts. I will have to go down to the vault and check but don't remember white material in the kit. I used it to replace inserts when I worked on guns. Seems hard to knock one out...but some people can do most anything they don't want to. Looking at the insert...it seems to be slightly higher in the ramp than the plastic inserts on the guns I have here at the desk

That's my opinion too: slightly higher in the ramp than usual inserts and shorter overall.
 
Bald1...Mag-Na-Port would install different colored inserts in front sights if I remember correctly. Is the insert smooth or have horizontal grooves? The latter indicates it was done by Mag-Na-Port.

Bill

IIRC, they used the plastic from a toothbrush handle.
 
Is that the original box pictured? Is there an end label on it?

Here's the Model 19 box label, which is indeed the original box.
Unfortunately, it is partly torn. However, no specific mention is made of the front sight.

53550934418_3427fc05b1_k.jpg
 
My 19-3 has a very different front sight but it is 6". I painted it white for target shooting.

Nice weapon. Personally, I prefer the aesthetics of Baughman Quick Draw-type front sight ramps, but Partrige's are probably perfect on a 6" barrel for target shooting. The white insert on my Model 19 probably indicates that its original owner also intended it for target shooting (better contrast with the black background of the target center).
 
The insert is smooth (no horizontal grooves). Which would rule out a Mag-Na-Port installation, if I understand correctly.

53542265227_a6e7680a3a_k.jpg


Moreover, as the photo shows, the insert is not flush on either side of the blade, but is very slightly recessed.

Doesn't ivory shrink with age?
 
Doesn't ivory shrink with age?

No, I don't think so. On the other hand, it can crack if excessively dehydrated, or stain due to its relative porosity. In other words, it would be a fragile material requiring a great deal of care for a handgun.

I understand that it fluoresces brightly in bluish tones under black light, like all organic materials. I'd have to do a test... but I don't have the equipment at hand.
 
No, I don't think so. On the other hand, it can crack if excessively dehydrated, or stain due to its relative porosity. In other words, it would be a fragile material requiring a great deal of care for a handgun.

I understand that it fluoresces brightly in bluish tones under black light, like all organic materials. I'd have to do a test... but I don't have the equipment at hand.

After that, ivory stocks are quite common... and General Patton's Registred Magnum is a good example ;-)

53551365218_c775cf912c_c.jpg
 
I'm not familiar with the Italian market, I just know that the 9x19 Luger is banned for civilians there (whereas the .45ACP is authorized...). A priori, as far as revolvers are concerned, the Italian market shouldn't be very different from the French market, i.e. fairly limited (there, the maximum number of weapons a sports shooter can own is even limited to 6, compared with 15 in France). On the other hand, if import costs in the USA are as high as they are to bring a gun from the USA to Europe, you may be in for a disappointment. For example, from what I've gathered from the experience of a few people, importing a revolver bought in the USA for $3,000 will cost you approximately EUR1,500!

If I were you, I'd bring back clothes and food! ;-)

Hi Bald1 , and salut Ours Français
Fortunately in Italy we can own 12 target handguns + 3 defense hanguns. The 9x19 ammo is now allowed, from last year. In these moment gunsmiths are driven crazy from the high request of new barrels, handguns and ammo in this caliber.
About the firearms export, yes, it is expensive: anyway I'm helping a well known American collector to export from Italy and France to US a lot of rare guns. If shipped in a lot, the cost will be hardly reduced and very acceptable.

My wife and I are traveling to Italy in 2025. Maybe I should bring gun money and ship them home

Bald1, of course I'm in Italy. If you want I can help you . PM me if you like
 
Hi Bald1 , and salut Ours Français
Fortunately in Italy we can own 12 target handguns + 3 defense hanguns. The 9x19 ammo is now allowed, from last year. In these moment gunsmiths are driven crazy from the high request of new barrels, handguns and ammo in this caliber.
About the firearms export, yes, it is expensive: anyway I'm helping a well known American collector to export from Italy and France to US a lot of rare guns. If shipped in a lot, the cost will be hardly reduced and very acceptable.



Bald1, of course I'm in Italy. If you want I can help you . PM me if you like

It seems that my information on Italian legislation was incorrect or out of date. Good news, I'll be able to consider moving to Italy again for retirement... ;-)
 
In Italy the firearms rules are simple and now for me Italy is one of the most permissive European state concerning the firearms possesion.
All firearms are permitted in Italy also 9x19, banned only fullauto, suppressor and 50 BMG caliber.

To buy firearms need a police permit, there are 4 type of licenses to buy or use firearms + one for a firearms collection.

To obtain these permit or licenses need the family doctor's certificate that you do not have mental illnesses and do not use drugs or alcohol, plus certification from the ear doctor and ophthalmologist, plus the certificate from a forensic or military doctor. Usually it is resolved only with the family doctor and the forensic or military doctor.
Court and police certification that you have not committed any violent or weapons crimes in your life.
The qualification to handle and use firearms to be obtained at the range.
After about two months you will have your permit or license.
The authorization to purchase firearms is valid only one time the licenses are valid for 5 years.

The authorization to purchase firearms is only the permit to buy firearms and you must keep the firearms in your house, no bring outside. This permit cost few euros.

The Sporting License to buy and detention for sporting use is very very easy to obtain and without any cost, only few euros for the bureaucratic, valid for 5 years.
This sporting license permit to bring firearms to all Italian territory for sporting reason only, no carry for self defence.

This license permith to buy all guns, short or long in all calibers produced, as divided:

-For self defence N° 3 firearms short or long usually handguns or revolvers
-For sporting use N° 12 firearms (hundreds firearms are classified for sporting use. For example all S&W revolvers eccept 2" are sporting gun, Colt 1911 A1 cal 45 ACP and clones are sporting guns, Glock 19x cal 9mm luger is sporting gun Colt AR 15 cal 223 and clones are sporting guns and other hundreds handguns and rifles)
-For Hunting N° unlimited number of rifles in all calibers produced, the only caliber banned is 50 BMG.

The Hunting license, cost about 300 euros by years as regional tax and payment of the game, you must been abilitated to obtain the hunting license, you must know rightly all law and rules concerning the hunting, valid for 5 years.
As the sporting license you can buy all Firearms in the same classes.
You can bring the Firearms in the Hunting period and to the range, no carry for self defence.

The Self defence license as the others licenses for purchase and detention, the personal defense license is issued for work reasons, for example if you do a job where you run the risk of being robbed, jeweler etc.etc.
Cost per year about 150 euros, concealed carry is the only permitted to all Italian territory, valid for 5 years.

When you exceed 3 + 12 defense and sporting weapons, you ask for a weapons collection license and buy as many as you want. the only limitation concerns the cartridges, 200 pistol and 1500 rifle cartridges to own in your home, unlimited shot and buckshot. You can buy and shoot in a range all ammo you want but don't exceded the max quantity permitted in your home.

During the five years of validity of the licenses you can purchase any weapon, whenever you want, but you have 72 hours to declare the new purchase to the police.
I think that attention and controls concerning the mental health, drugs and alcohol use and abuse are dutiful on the part of the police.

Concerning the firearms prices, please consulting this italian used firearms market website-

smith wesson >> Rivoltelle | Armiusate.it, Armi Usate, Armi Nuove, vendita, acquisto
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top