Smiths in 45 Colt Ctg The Ultimate 25 and 625 discussion.Edited June 2014

[Allen-frame]

So many questions about Smith and Wesson revolvers chambered in 45 Colt ctg.

I got to thinking(and here's where I get into trouble),why not one thread
where all Model 25s and 625s chambered in 45 Colt could be discussed?

Cylinder throats,load data, frequently asked questions, who has had
conversions done. And, of course, pictures. Lots of pictures, so you cats
with em'can show em'.

What do you say? Good idea?
Let's make this " The Ultimate Smiths in 45 Colt thread' and have some fun.

Aside from a few model 25s'and 25-2s' chambered in 45 Colt,
it appears that the regular production of this model began in 1977 with the model 25-3, which is the Anniversary edition.

The 25-5 began regular production in 1978, and was offered in 4 in.,6in., and 8 3/8ths.in. barrels.
These early models with the pinned barrels are the ones that may suffer
accuracy issues for reasons we may discuss later.
(Note); do not condemn your particular revolver until you have fired
it with a reasonable assortment of ammunition.
Just because a model 25 is older does not mean it will not shoot.

In 1982 or thereabouts the pinned barrel feature was discontinued.
This is generally conceded to be the timeframe when the individual
cylinder chamber throats were tightened up to a consistent size,
and overall accuracy with modern ammunition improved.

In 1988 the model 25-7 was introduced incorporating the new yoke retention system(spring loaded screw) / the "radius stud package" /
the infamous 'floating hand' .
This model is the 5 in. barrel with the unfluted cylinder and bead blast blue finish.

The 25-9 appears 2 years later in 1990, with the longer stop notch in the cylinder that was developed for the model 29.
These -9s are all found to be excellent shooters because of the proper tolerances in this era.



6/15/2015 Update ; I am in the process of updating all my photographs of my Smiths in 45 Colt.

Here I begin, and I will continue as time allows. .


Model 26s , 5 inch tapered barrel 45 Colt.
1 26-1 Overrun. 2 26-1 Georgia State Patrol Commemoratives..
And a model 25-9 created in the likeness of a 26 .

Here displaying the various nuances of the Goncalo Alves Magna grips.




































The Model 25-5 with the 4 inch barrel has been touted as a perfect
packing gun.
Just like its model 29 4 in. counterpart these N frames are revered and coveted by collectors and shooters alike.

I have managed to collect 5 of these.
From a 1985 N939*** serial with proper chamber throats to a 25-9 BFE serial prefix.

All wearing proper smooth Magna stocks of course. . .




































Next up in my entourage are a pair of short barreled 45s.
The Heavy Duty I built using a 625 Mountain gun barrel and cylinder
and a model 25-7 cut down to 3.5" . .
These short N frames look proper wearing P,C, Magna stocks. .


























Next up in my little group are the conversions.
The model 28 was a popular platform to convert to 45 Colt.
I have found 2 that used the original cylinder bored out to 45,
one with a model of 1950 barrel converted by Gallagher.
The other using a 1955 heavy barrel unknown who converted.

Both wearing period correct checkered Magna stocks.






The Gallagher gun really shoots....













Next up is one of my own conversions.
A model of 1950 target that I used a 25-5 cylinder and a 25-15 barrel on.
A good functioning and shooting piece.















But, the top of the heap in converted revolvers is my Clements Custom Guns
Pre war Heavy Duty.
This is an engineering marvel the way the work was done and functions.
A mid 1930s gun wearing later pre war Magnas.













The 5 inch model 25-7 is a great shooting gun
these are touted to have great balance with the 5 in tube.

I like them wearing N square finger Combat stocks.
This pair are original ...and unmodified.














My only 8 inch is a 25-5 AYM serial prefix 1987. .










I am waiting on a letter for this 1916 Model .455.
Extremely high condition for 99 years old.















Modern Performance Center model 25s from 2001 fall into 2 categories.

The model 25-11 in Case Color and Blue. . .
These have 6 1/2" barrels and come in Heritage series Gold boxes.










































And the Model 25-10 with a 6 in. barrel comes in a P.C. hard case.

























And my experiment. A 25-10 cut down to 3 1/2" . A good shooter but needs to
be cosmetically completed.










The model 25-13 is the only Blue Mountain gun Smith ever made in 45 Colt.
Even with the lockensphiel, the collection would not be complete without it.











AND , that's it for the blued models.

particularly scarce and handy are the 3 inch 625s in 45 Colt.

Here are 3 original 625-7s and my 629 converted using an original 625 barrel and cylinder.









































The 625-7 Power Port. great shooting gun. Long sight radius good for these old eyes.























6 Mountain guns now.

5 original and one I converted from a model 657. .































The 625-5 Stocking dealer Special is a special gun.
Next to the 3 inch guns probably the most desirable. .




















And that's it for the Stainless versions for now.






........








Allen . . .


Allen

 

[GLL]

This one may be considered cheating !

Jerry

Pre-war .38/44 Outdoorsman converted to .45Colt by Bowen
Designed by Michael Stern

 

[rollin_hot]

25-5

Allen,

It's like you can read my mind.....

Just bought this yesturday, locally. The seller was not sure who did the conversion or when it was done but it seems to be a nice high quality conversion. I have not shot it yet, but will do so very soon. The 45 Colt is a new caliber for me but I had to have it. It came with the two piece Jordan style grips but I added these for the pics.

 

[Allen-frame]

There you go Mike. We'll expect a range report after you shoot it.

Jimmyjoe, and Jerry. Let's provide details please.
How do they shoot? Anything particular about the model shown that we should know?

Jerry, no, that is not cheating. But not telling how the conversion was done, how much it cost, and most of all ,how it shoots.
i also know you have a few more tucked away. Where are they?

This is the thread, guys, let us know

Allen Frame.

 

[MAG-NUM]

Looks like an interesting thread Allen.
This is my only S&W in .45 Colt and I was fortunate enough to find one with the correct bore diameters. Of course the model 25-5 with it's large N frame and target stocks and the 4" barrel make this a well balanced and very accurate side arm. The big chunky slow moving Long Colt ammo is easy on the hands but still packs a wallop
The serial no on this gun is N8260XX which puts it in the 1980 range of manufacture. An all around great gun. Bob

 

[robctwo]

I tried to get interested in .45 colt a few years ago with a SAA Taurus. It shot pretty good shotgun patterns at 7 yards. I put it away.

I bought a Rossi Puma '92. Lots of fun, but not a pistol.

I had a client give me a Taurus .44 Mag that I never shot. Traded it at a gun show for a Ruger 4 5/8" .45 Colt/ACP convertible. Really started enjoying the round.

Bought a S&W 25 Classic, 6.5" nickel last February. It has a lock. Chamber mouths are good, and it is a tack driver. I shoot mostly 6.0 Red dot under 200 gr lswc.

I found a good deal on a 25-13 Mountain Gun.

Decided I needed one of the older guns without a lock. 25-7

I've put Wolff spring kits in them and been slicking up the internals. The 25-7 had need of a shim on the hammer strut from my smith to stop the drag on the frame.

My 25 Classic is accurate enough to bust clay birds on a birm at 60 yards. Not every shot, but often enough to make it fun.

I've also bought a 5" SS Ruger Bisley as well. Really enjoying loading for these guns.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Allen-frame,
I am interested in your Win/Miroku 1892 in 45 Colt. I have one of those and finding a load that shoots well at 100 yards has not been particularly easy (it will do 3-4"...sometimes).

Have you found a load for yours that performs well at that distance?

Actually my slab barrel PC target model 625-6 will outshoot it at 100 yards. Maybe it's the difference in a scope (actually a holosight) vs. iron sights but that is one really well made S&W 45 Colt.

 

[Shooting4life]

Here is my 25-5 above my 27-2

 

[Stainz]

My first ever S&W - a 625-7 MG in .45 Colt - and it's later bought 'back-up', a 625-6 MG:

Stainz

 

[Marshal Tom]

Allen,

I am very interested in this thread. I purchased a .45 Mtn Gun and sold it without ever firing it. I would like to learn more about the S&W .45 Colt ie, which is the best one to have, loads etc. I have considered having a pre model 27 converted to .44 special or .45 Colt. I hope that some of the owners will put more info in here regarding there experiences with the caliber etc.

Tom

 

[jimmyjoe]

There you go Mike. We'll expect a range report after you shoot it.

Jimmyjoe, and Jerry. Let's provide details please.
How do they shoot? Anything particular about the model shown that we should know?



Allen Frame.

I purchased these revolvers some time back and as much as I hate to admit it, I have never fired them. The 625-6 is a Mountain Gun and the 25-7 appears unfired with box and contents.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I am down to only two S&W .45 Colts at the moment. I have been loading for, and shooting guns in this caliber for 24 or 25 years (not sure now, gettin old I guess). It is my favorite caliber, and I have posted many times on this, and other forums, about the throat issues etc.

The guns are much sronger than generally given credit, (usually by someone who heard it from a guy, who heard it from his cousin, who knew a guy who once watched another guy load his gun with rounds with 300 grain bullets and shoot them at a target, who then declared himself an expert on the subject, etc).

No, S&W's aren't Ruger's, but they won't blow apart or wear out with stouter loads than the factory sells either. No one says you have to run one wide open all the time, but it's nice to know you can when needed.

Many here know about the following links, but some don't so I'll post them here-

Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend

I have fired many of Linebaugh's loads through my S&W's with never any problem, but I limit my guns to the loads that are running25,000 psi or under.

The .45 Colt in a model 25 can equal the .44 magnum with the right loads. It leaves a wider permanent wound channel too.

These are the two S&W's I will not be parting with-
My 25-7, which is an outstanding shooter with about anything that you can put in it. The throats are spot on at .452"-

and my 25-5, which has throats that run .4525"- .453". It is also an excellent shooter, and it gives velocities with the same laods as used in the 25-7 that are normally within 25 fps or less. My main heavy load is pushing a 265 Lyman 454424 to 1130 fps. My main target/plnking load pushes the same bullet to around 900 fps depending on which powder I am using-

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I've posted this here many times before, but for new folks who may have one of these guns, or are thinking about buying one, and want to know how to check them in a store for correct throats, I'll post this again-

The older Pinned guns with the N prefix had oversized throats and were not the best shooters. Some with a N prefix did have the correct throats, but they are the exception to the rule, as most will be .455"-.458" in diameter. Any 25-5 with the ABC 1234 serial system will have the correct throats in it and should be a great shooter (as long as it has been taken care of, of course)

To check the throats, take a jacketed bullet (use a jacketed bullet and not lead, since lead is normally lubed and sticky in of its own nature anyway, which can give a false impression that they are fitting correctly) with you (Hornady 300 gr XTP's work best because they are longer and are .452" in diameter) and drop it into the chamber from the rear. If it falls right on through, the throats are too large ( normally .455" or bigger) to give very good accuracy with standard .45 Colt bullets running .451"- .452".

If it hangs up briefly in the throat, then falls on out, you are looking at throats that will be in the area of .453"- .454", and will work with some of the larger bullets out like the factory Win, and Rem swaged lead bullets.
If it hangs up in the throat, but can be pushed on through using a pencil or pen, and using only finger pressure to do so, you have a gun that will potentially be very accurate and what you are looking for in a shooter.

If you get one that has large throats, the Winchester and Remington swaged lead bullets that they sell at places like Cabela's will usually improve their accuracy with standard loads by quite a bit since they run .456" and .455" respectively, and have hollow bases to help the bullets obturate and fill the throats which in turn help align them with the bore before entering the forcing cone.

 

[ElToro]

i have a 125th anniv edition with box and book and presentation case and even the shipping container box it all came in. was a Christmas gift from my dad in 1996. never shot it so couldnt tell you how it groups.

 

[bubbajoe45]

A 4" 25-5 was my first Smith in the mid-80s - must've had large throats cause it wouldn't group. I traded it off for a Model 29 (Smith cartridge in a Smith gun was my reckoning).

OK, I'll bite Allen: What does this mean? "After shooting it I understood what the fantastic difference between 45 Colt and 44 magnum was."

 

[aphelion]

I had N679xxx, an 8-3/8" M25-5 I bought new in early 1980. It was the worst S & W shooter I've owned before or since. The problem with that revolver wasn't the cylinder throats, which at about .454". No problem, since I have .45 molds that drop bullets at that diameter or larger. The problem was the cavernous forcing cone, both too wide and deep. A cast 454424 would drop completely into the forcing cone so that its base was below the end of the barrel. A bullet would be completely unsupported by the cylinder throat before it engaged the rifling. It would shoot jacketed bullets into 4-5" at 25 yards (which to me is poor accuracy), but cast bullets were wild. You can imagine what was happening to cast bullet bases during the trip from from the cylinder to the rifling. Needless to say, leading was very bad in the forcing cone.

I looked at other 25-5s in that same time period and they were all the same. M29's shared the same affliction around the same time.

As an aside, I traded that M25-5 for an HK91. Kind of shows you how times have changed.

 

[Stainz]

My 625-7 MG was my first S&W - and I tried to wear it out. I even started reloading just to feed it. Whether 200gr LRNFP at 700 fps from .45 Schofield cases or 255gr LSWC/250gr Gold Dots at nearing 900 fps from .45 Colt cases - with wood grips - they are fun all day shooters. The initial humor of a S&W revolver with 'Colt' emblazoned on it did fade - as does the laser writing on the tapered tube.

Pet peeves include the smallish hammer & trigger - and the black/black sights. They pale when you feel the balance - with Ahrends square conversion cocobolo grips. Transfer those peeves to the 629 MG in .44 Magnum - where you have a choice - the production 4" 629, with only a 2 oz premium, has a full barrel/partial lug, larger hammer & trigger, and orange ramp/white outline sights. There isn't a current similar straight 625 version, so the 625 MG is it, if you want a later production SS .45 Colt.

Here is my original one, the 625-7 MG depicted earlier, with it's longer barrel friend - a Rossi/Puma SS 24" Octagon barrel M1892, sporting a Marbles Tang Sight. I bought it several months after the MG - great combo. Forget the wider rimmed .45 Schofields - only the .45 Colts will fit the narrow gate.

Fun round, if a bit pricey these days to reload. I seem to have 'discovered' .38 Specials since - and, more recently, .22 rimfire. Still, that big but relatively mild round is fun.

Stainz

 

[David Sinko]

The only S&W .45 Colt I ever owned was a 25-7 and I traded it away years ago. My biggest complaint about the chambers was that they were too sloppy in the head area and caused the case heads to expand way too much, even with moderate loads. The cylinder throats were fine but it was the rest of the chamber that was not so good. The only .45 Colt I now own is a Bowen Redhawk Alpine Conversion, simply a caliber converted and shortened six shot .44 Magnum. Unfortunately I don't shoot that revolver anymore, preferring my various 625s in .45 ACP instead. If I had it to do all over again I'd have a 4" 629 re-chambered and re-bored by Bowen.

Dave Sinko

 

[Allen-frame]

BubbaJoe, the fantastic difference I experienced particularly between
the 45 Colt and 44 Magnum was the lack of fierce recoil.
I do handload both calibers and enjoy shooting 44 Specials in my
revolvers chambered for them.

I just really like the 45 Colt at about 1000f.p.s. as compared to almost
any 44 Magnum round.

Regards
Allen Frame

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Here's my favorite S&W 45 Colt revolver:

It is extremely solid and accurate, well made to PC standards. According to SCSW, there are about 50 of these in the country. It has an integral scope mount and barrel weight system on the slab barrel, factory porting, the trigger is first rate, perfectly crisp, with an overtravel adjustment, and the lockup is enhanced with an extra ball detent type lock at the crane/ forward frame. To say it is tight is an understatement. Favorite loads are based on the Hornady 250 XTP-HP or RCBS 45-270-SAA with charges giving velocities in the 950-1100fps range. Power Pistol is a favorite powder, but 4227 and 2400 also do well. I also like Lil'Gun because of it's high velocties relative to pressure, but have heard of some erosion issues with it so have backed off using it in my S&Ws. It will routinely give me 1-1.5" groups at 50 yds with any decent load, sometimes better with favorites. At 100yds it often produces <2.5" groups with the 1 moa dot holosight. I don't know what the cylinder mouths measure, but based on empirical observation of its performance with .452" bullets I'd say they are pretty ideal. I do carry it hunting occasionally with the holosight, but it spends more time on the range with 950 fps loads.

I also have a 4" 25-5 with pinned barrel, and yes it has big cylinder throats around .456+". It does OK with the Rem .455" LRN swaged bullets. Like many of these pinned barrel models, the barrel's forcing cone seems to large for a proper cylinder/barrel relation. It's kinda cool as a revolver though, and shoots well enough. But it is the one I would sell or trade first.

I also have a 25-13 Mountain Gun. Even though it has the dreaded IL, it is well finished and fitted, and the cylinder throats are correct. It also likes the 45-270-SAA (what 45 Colt doesn't?) and delivers about 2" groups at 25 yds when they are driven around 900-950fps. Oddly enough, it also likes the 230 gr Speer LRN loaded to around 930fps with 11.5gr of WSF (my Vaqueros like that one also). It's a fun plinking and short (25yd) range load.