Snap cap ? from a beginner

[greyhoundrick]

Hello everyone,

Thank you in advance for your expertise and insight.

I have an M&P 9mm that i will be shooting for the first time without an instructor in the near future and have been dry firing and practicing each evening after work. My new gun has never been fired since i received it so this will be the first time. I have used the range's M&Ps for my lessons.

I recently received the A-Zoom Snap Caps that i purchased online and just as i was getting ready to begin using them i decided to watch a YouTube video to see exactly how to use them.

The YouTube video i watched stated that using A-Zoom snap caps are very harmful for the pistol and gave many reasons why such as pieces breaking, rubbing and/or wearing away from the caps and damaging the pistol.

I was really disappointed to learn this but if valid, I'm glad i learned this now rather than later. I love dry firing my gun but wonder if i should send these back, use them or ?

Also, i believe dry firing this pistol is ok, but wanted to check with you folks regarding that as well.

I really respect your expertise and value your opinions very much.

Thanks for helping me. I just want to make sure I'm doing things correctly.

best to you,

rick

 

[dfhawkins]

Dry firing is an excellent method to develop trigger squeeze, follow through, and trigger reset. There is no problem dry firing a center fire weapon like your M&P 9 with an empty chamber. It is not, however, advised for rim fired guns although some do it without apparent damage.

Snap caps are good to use for Failure to Fire drills, function checks, instruction and demonstration, and I personally have used them for dry fire, though I do mostly live fire training.

The best techniques are developed through live fire. Stick with the basics, start slow, concentrate on sight alignment and trigger squeeze, and, if at all possible, find some classes.

 

[Rpg]

Snap caps are limited to double shotguns (double guns) and double rifles.

Using them in anything else is in handy and over fussy.

This includes rim fire firearms.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[RDFabsRep]

I use the red snap caps (made in Italy) for my 9mm's. Not sure if they're the same as you have, but I've never had a single problem or breakage.

If tiny pieces of plastic and shavings from a brass dummy primer can seriously damage a pistol, I'd probably consider buying a more reliable pistol.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Been using A Zoom for years. I have no problems.

Dry fire should be well thought out. It should be a program with strict rules.

Rule Number 1: Put all live ammo in another room. Leave there until you are done. When you're done, YOU'RE DONE!

Many a wall or TV has been shot because they didn't have enough sense to follow this one rule.

Stuff happens. The phone rings. Wife or kids interrupt. After the interruption you continue your dry fire not remembering that you were actually done and loaded the live ammo back in your gun.

 

[scooter123]

The Azoom snap caps have a urethane insert that acts sort of like a catchers mitt when you dry fire your pistol. Are they absolutely necessary? That depends. If you only dry fire a few times to check for function you don't need to use snap caps. If you are going to dry fire your firearm thousands of times you should consider snap caps to be essential.

Now for why snap caps should be used when dry firing a LOT. Most semi automatic pistols have some type of cross pin that limits how far forward the firing pin can stroke. Do a lot of dry firing without using snap caps and one of two things WILL happen. One is that cross pin can shatter (common for Sig's and Springfield XD pistols). The other is that the firing pin can shatter (common to S&W revolvers with frame mounted firing pins). The good news is that these parts don't cost a lot of money to replace. The bad news is you won't be doing any shooting until you have your gun repaired.

Now, a warning. The Azoom snap caps will wear out. The rims do get chewed up from cycling them into and out of the chamber. In addition on the semi autos the headspace edge on the snap cap will get peened in time and the ridge that develops from this can cause the snap cap to get real draggy in the chamber. With the revolver snap caps the typical failure is shooting the rim off the snap cap and that can allow the body to get part way into the barrel and jam up the cylinder. However, it is very easy to use a pencil or cleaning rod to simply push the snap cap back into the cylinder so you can open it up. As for damaging your pistol, perhaps in theory it's possible but simple visual inspection from time to time is all that is needed to eliminate that chance.

BTW, the plastic dummy rounds for rimfire calibers are NOT snap caps and should not be used as such. These dummy rounds are for nothing except doing a function test for feed and extraction. If you want a something that can be used as a snap cap with a rimfire simply save your fired cases and use them as a snap cap. Just be aware that after 2 or 3 strikes those cases will become very difficult to extract and may require using a cleaning rod to push them out.

 

[Rastoff]

If you are going to dry fire your firearm thousands of times you should consider snap caps to be essential.

I have at least 70,000 dry presses on one gun, 12,000 on another and over 20,000 on still another. I have never used a snap cap for these dry presses. Since I haven't used this "essential" tool, why haven't my guns ever failed?

greyhoundrick,
The aluminum A-Zoom snap caps will not harm your gun, but you don't need them. They are a nice substitute for practicing malfunction drills, but those can be done without snap caps or live rounds.

 

[rdtompki]

Been using A Zoom for years. I have no problems.

Dry fire should be well thought out. It should be a program with strict rules.

Rule Number 1: Put all live ammo in another room. Leave there until you are done. When you're done, YOU'RE DONE!

Many a wall or TV has been shot because they didn't have enough sense to follow this one rule.

Stuff happens. The phone rings. Wife or kids interrupt. After the interruption you continue your dry fire not remembering that you were actually done and loaded the live ammo back in your gun.

+1. Should be part of everyone's handgun "religion". When I'm practicing in our living room I unload in the bedroom (drop mag, check chamber 2-3 times), bring the empty mag(s), gun and snapcaps out of the bedroom, sit down and load the snap caps. I keep the snap caps of each caliber in a separate, transparent plastic container. This is doubly important now that I've begun using dummy bullets (drilled, no primer) which at a distance might look like live cartridges.

 

[The Sarge]

Per Smith & Wesson Factory Personnel: No snap caps are needed to dry fire a M&P centerfire pistol and no damage what so ever will occur. That is all I needed to hear. Bill

 

[OldCat]

Snap caps are limited to double shotguns (double guns) and double rifles.

Using them in anything else is in handy and over fussy.

This includes rim fire firearms.

Just my opinion, of course.

There are some rimfire guns that the firing pin will peen the area of impact and affect the chambering of a round. It isn't advisable to dry fire rimfires.

 

[arjay]

I'd always been told not to dry fire rimfires.Never did until recently.After working on the burr with a needle file and replacing the firing pin.... The firing pin stop was missing from the bolt [emoji57]

 

[Chuck Jones]

Snap caps are unnecessary in modern firearms.

/c

 

[greyhoundrick]

Hello everyone and thank you for all of your posts!

Well, i tried numerous times to use my snap caps tonight and here were my results...

The first 3 or 4 times i encountered either stove pipes or jams. I didn't know how to address the jams so i went to youtube and learned to pull the magazine out which worked. The first couple times i was perplexed by how pushing the magazine release did not work until i learned that because the top snap cap was forward a bit it would not allow for the magazine to drop out thus requiring me to pull it out.

As i kept practicing i discovered that the more i tried using the snap caps the more i was able to get thru all 5 of them without a stove pipe or a jam.

Is it possible that i was not being aggressive enough with my racking and that was causing the problems? When comparing my practice to that of people on YouTube who were experienced i noticed i was being too tentative when racking and i think that was causing my issues.

Please let me know what you think and also a couple of more questions:

1. If while I'm at the range and i encounter a stove pipe i believe that my action should be to tap, rack and fire. If that does not work i should wait 30 seconds, drop the magazine, rack and make sure all clear before inserting another magazine. Is this correct?

2. Ive noticed that my snap caps even after one use will show a little scrap mark on them. Will this harm the pistol at all if little chips or small particles come off the snap cap?

Thanks much for your help!

best to you,

rick

 

[rdtompki]

Snap caps or live rounds you need to b aggressive when racking the slide. I don't know which technique you're using, but I find it easier to rack using the over-hand grip versus slingshot. Which technique are you using?

 

[Rastoff]

1. If while I'm at the range and i encounter a stove pipe i believe that my action should be to tap, rack and fire. If that does not work i should wait 30 seconds, drop the magazine, rack and make sure all clear before inserting another magazine. Is this correct?

A "stove pipe" malfunction is also called a Type II. To clear this type of issue:

• Tap the bottom of the magazine to ensure it's seated properly.
• Tilt the gun a little so the ejection port is pointed down at least slightly. At the same time, rack the slide. Do it with force and try to actually rip the slide off the back of the gun. This will ensure you don't ride it forward.
• Point in and assess if a shot is necessary.

Whether at the range or not, the same skills need to be re-enforced. This is why we teach "tap, rack/flip, assess" rather than "tap, rack, shoot(bang)". You don't want to ingrain the shoot reflex because that extra shot may not be necessary. Every shot should be calculated and on purpose rather than just reflex.

There is no need to wait 30 seconds for a Type II malfunction. The round fired so, there is no concern of a hang fire.

2. Ive noticed that my snap caps even after one use will show a little scrap mark on them. Will this harm the pistol at all if little chips or small particles come off the snap cap?

There is no aspect of a snap cap that will harm your pistol. They are either brass, aluminum or plastic. None of those materials can harm the steel of your gun. The worst that can happen is a small piece of plastic could get in the works and interfere with smooth operation. This is why I don't recommend plastic snap caps.

 

[greyhoundrick]

Snap caps or live rounds you need to b aggressive when racking the slide. I don't know which technique you're using, but I find it easier to rack using the over-hand grip versus slingshot. Which technique are you using?

Thanks much for your comments! I use the over-hand technique and after listening to you folks i believe one of my problems is that I'm just not aggressive enough and am babying the rack process. Thanks so much for the help.

 

[greyhoundrick]

Rastoff, thanks very much for taking the time to help me.

"This is why we teach "tap, rack/flip, assess"

Can you please expound on the "assess" process? Im not too sure what i should be doing exactly with that step. Thanks again!

 

[Southpaw1]

Assess the situation to determine whether an additional shot is warranted.

 

[Arik]

You don't need snap caps in modern guns.

Also you don't need to leave the ammo in one room, close the door, brick it up, leave the house, drive 16.3 miles away and then practice. All you have to do is just use your head. You practiced and now you are done. That simple. After driving for a few hours do you instinctively try to steer or hit the pedals while at the kitchen table? No? Same here. You WERE practicing and now you are done. Put it away or whatever you would normally do with the gun

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Rastoff]

Can you please expound on the "assess" process? Im not too sure what i should be doing exactly with that step. Thanks again!

Southpaw1 got it exactly right.

The reason we teach that is based on defensive shooting. In most defensive situations it is desirable to shoot two controlled shots right away. If there is a malfunction after the first shot, this is where "tap, rack/flip, assess" comes into play. It gets you back in the action. However, the first shot may have been enough to resolve the situation.

 

[Rastoff]

Also you don't need to leave the ammo in one room, close the door, brick it up, leave the house, drive 16.3 miles away and then practice.

This is a little acerbic don't you think? Having a place to dry practice where no live ammo is ever taken is a good idea.

I personally know a guy who had to buy a new TV because he thought this idea was silly. I know another who recently replaced his printer due to complacency. There are countless stories of inadvertent holes due to accidentally getting a bang when a click was expected. I don't see it as a silly practice to keep live ammo out of your dry practice area.

Can you do it without strict adherence to this policy? Sure. Why take the risk?

 

[Arik]

It's not complacency that I'm talking about. Anyone can practice in a different area then load up and have an accident. This doesn't matter where you leave the ammo. Everything has to do with being aware. That's all. If I unload in a different room, different zip code or on the dining room table the fact still remains that the gun is unloaded and the ammo won't just jump back in. We can all agree on that, right? Now once you go back to that room, that other zip code or grab the mag off the dining room table and load the gun it's loaded and if the phone rings and you pick it up and still think the gun is empty and while talking dry fire you will still get a hole in something. ..right? So It really doesn't matter how far away the ammo is what matters is what you do right after you load the gun

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[OldCat]

This is a little acerbic don't you think? Having a place to dry practice where no live ammo is ever taken is a good idea.

I personally know a guy who had to buy a new TV because he thought this idea was silly. I know another who recently replaced his printer due to complacency. There are countless stories of inadvertent holes due to accidentally getting a bang when a click was expected. I don't see it as a silly practice to keep live ammo out of your dry practice area.

Can you do it without strict adherence to this policy? Sure. Why take the risk?

Yep. A good friend of mine was bored studying from law school so he decided to practice drawing his weapon in front of a mirror. BANG. He not only broke the mirror (dresser type) it went through the wall and into the hallway. It scared the S**t out of him but the biggest worry he had was how to explain it to his wife.

Some fast action got the mirror replaced and we fixed the wall and painted it before his wife came home. Two years later as they were moving into a new house she noticed an odd hole in the dresser mirror support. Boy did he get grilled.

Never again did he ever "dry fire" in a room where there is ammo around.

 

[greyhoundrick]

Hello all and Happy Fathers Day!

I went to the range today and shot my M&P 9mm for the first time. It was also the first time I've shot without an instructor.

Everything went well as i followed your advice, took my time, concentrated and respected what i was working with. I shot 100 rounds and can't wait to shoot again.

I did notice one thing that i wanted to ask you about.......

I wear glasses with transition lenses and I've noticed when i take my stance and look at the sight that it is blurry unless i tilt my head back and look thru the bottom part of my lenses.

My glasses are fine as I've had them for a long time. Its just with these types of lenses you have to look thru different parts of them to view different distances. It just so happens that my posture dictates that i tilt my head back in order to see the sight clearly.

After a few rounds i decided to take my glasses off and replace them with a protective eye piece provided by the range. Of course my vision was compromised a bit but i was actually able to see the sight much better and actually shot better without my transition glasses on.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before?

I was thinking maybe i had either the gun too high or my head tilted downward too much but the range supervisor told me that my posture looked good.

Thanks for all of the help and take care,

rick

 

[Rastoff]

I wear glasses with transition lenses and I've noticed when i take my stance and look at the sight that it is blurry unless i tilt my head back and look thru the bottom part of my lenses.

Are they Transitions lenses or Progressive lenses? Is your distance vision different from your reading vision?

I wear tri-focals. I have one prescription for reading, one for computer screen distance and my far distance is fine. So, the top of my lenses is no prescription and then two different ones for reading at different distances.

Yes, I have to tilt my head back a little to have a clear focus on my front sight. I fixed this with a single vision lens with the computer screen distance prescription.

 

[OldCat]

Hello all and Happy Fathers Day!

I went to the range today and shot my M&P 9mm for the first time. It was also the first time I've shot without an instructor.

Everything went well as i followed your advice, took my time, concentrated and respected what i was working with. I shot 100 rounds and can't wait to shoot again.

I did notice one thing that i wanted to ask you about.......

I wear glasses with transition lenses and I've noticed when i take my stance and look at the sight that it is blurry unless i tilt my head back and look thru the bottom part of my lenses.

My glasses are fine as I've had them for a long time. Its just with these types of lenses you have to look thru different parts of them to view different distances. It just so happens that my posture dictates that i tilt my head back in order to see the sight clearly.

After a few rounds i decided to take my glasses off and replace them with a protective eye piece provided by the range. Of course my vision was compromised a bit but i was actually able to see the sight much better and actually shot better without my transition glasses on.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before?

I was thinking maybe i had either the gun too high or my head tilted downward too much but the range supervisor told me that my posture looked good.

Thanks for all of the help and take care,

rick

I believe you mean you have progressive lenses. Transition lenses darken in sunlight.

The answer is yes you have to tilt your head to see the sights clearly. That's because the reading portion of your prescription is located at the bottom of the lens. You can get your optician to make you a pair of lenses for shooting but that would be diadvantageous to learning self-defence shooting. (Hold it right there while I change my glasses! This won't work). So the best practice is to either learn to tilt back or learn to use a fuzzy sight picture.

I have progressives and use the tilt method so I can have a sharp sight picture. However, at 7 yards a point and shoot would be more affective in a self-defence situation. So in that case it is better to train your muscles rather than your eyes. I do practice point and shoot which needs either live ammo or a reactive laser system.

If I was strictly target shooting and never intend to carry then I would have the optician make me a pair of shooting glasses.

 

[greyhoundrick]

I believe you mean you have progressive lenses. Transition lenses darken in sunlight.

The answer is yes you have to tilt your head to see the sights clearly. That's because the reading portion of your prescription is located at the bottom of the lens. You can get your optician to make you a pair of lenses for shooting but that would be diadvantageous to learning self-defence shooting. (Hold it right there while I change my glasses! This won't work). So the best practice is to either learn to tilt back or learn to use a fuzzy sight picture.

I have progressives and use the tilt method so I can have a sharp sight picture. However, at 7 yards a point and shoot would be more affective in a self-defence situation. So in that case it is better to train your muscles rather than your eyes. I do practice point and shoot which needs either live ammo or a reactive laser system.

If I was strictly target shooting and never intend to carry then I would have the optician make me a pair of shooting glasses.

thanks so much for the great advice and sorry for my ignorance with my nomenclature. I guess the important thing is that you knew what i meant lol!

I think i can shoot ok with my glasses on and will do it that way in the future. You are right. I wouldn't be able to say "Hey, hold on a sec, i have to take my glasses off and find my shooting goggles"

take care,

rick