Snubby in Vietnam

[LoboGunLeather]

Some where I don't remember in 1968, an aircraft flew by and a finger of pale pink tracers reached up to it.
The airplane answered with a firehose of tracers. It was Spooky!

Also known as Puff the Magic Dragon (a popular folk song of the period). A cargo plane equipped with 7.62mm automatic cannons (mini-guns) capable of a cyclic rate of nearly 6000 rounds per minute each (although typically tuned-down to around 2000 to avoid burning up the barrels prematurely). C-47 (the venerable military version of the DC-3), C-119, C-130 Hercules (now more popularly known as the AC-130 gunship). At least one iteration was tried with a 105mm howitzer mounted on the tail ramp; never saw that personally.

From the ground it was usually possible to hear the aircraft engines, but night-time engagements seldom allowed a view of the aircraft. When the General Electric mini-guns fired the sound was similar to a large zipper being pulled, no sense of individual shots. Every 5th round was a tracer so the incoming fire appeared very much like a red laser beam from the sky to the ground. I would compare it to the finger of a very angry god.

Gunships (UH-1, AH-64 helicopters) were great for close support. Attack aircraft (F4, F105, USAF, USN, USMC) could provide extra punch with 20mm cannon, bombs, napalm. Puff the Magic Dragon could assume an orbit around a ground position and loiter for an hour or two, in radio contact and responding to specific directions for shifting fire to the necessary places, away from friendlies on the ground.

Awesome weapon system! No matter how much we requested there was never an invoice for the thousands of rounds delivered. At 30-plus rounds per second, per gun, my paltry salary would never be enough to pay for what I was asking for.

 

[fordson]

I saw them (AC-130 Gunship) in action at night during DS. A spectacular fire works display. Fourth of July in February.

 

[llowry61]

Also known as Puff the Magic Dragon (a popular folk song of the period). A cargo plane equipped with 7.62mm automatic cannons (mini-guns) capable of a cyclic rate of nearly 6000 rounds per minute each (although typically tuned-down to around 2000 to avoid burning up the barrels prematurely). C-47 (the venerable military version of the DC-3), C-119, C-130 Hercules (now more popularly known as the AC-130 gunship). At least one iteration was tried with a 105mm howitzer mounted on the tail ramp; never saw that personally.

From the ground it was usually possible to hear the aircraft engines, but night-time engagements seldom allowed a view of the aircraft. When the General Electric mini-guns fired the sound was similar to a large zipper being pulled, no sense of individual shots. Every 5th round was a tracer so the incoming fire appeared very much like a red laser beam from the sky to the ground. I would compare it to the finger of a very angry god.

Gunships (UH-1, AH-64 helicopters) were great for close support. Attack aircraft (F4, F105, USAF, USN, USMC) could provide extra punch with 20mm cannon, bombs, napalm. Puff the Magic Dragon could assume an orbit around a ground position and loiter for an hour or two, in radio contact and responding to specific directions for shifting fire to the necessary places, away from friendlies on the ground.

Awesome weapon system! No matter how much we requested there was never an invoice for the thousands of rounds delivered. At 30-plus rounds per second, per gun, my paltry salary would never be enough to pay for what I was asking for.

I worked for Lockheed Air Terminal at Lockbourne AFB now known as Rickenbacker AFB in Columbus Ohio in the 80's.

The Airport manager was a Vietnam era pilot and knew I was doing my flight training during the day and working nights at the airport. He flew puff and told me that when they lit up the guns he would have to hit the rudder hard and the whole plane would still shift sideways.

He was quite a guy, he owned a Cherokee 180 that he was restoring and let me fly it regularly at no charge to help me build my hours.

This post made me think of him - been a long time.

 

[SF VET]

Ferret Face, part 1

Our EVAC was staffed with active duty and reserve physicians from all over the US. I was Chief of Staff, with 29 distinguished physicians and several nurse practitioners and nurse anesthetists. Some were department heads, others were authors of medical texts, and all were absolutely superb in their fields. I had a brief staff meeting each morning, giving the morning news, the password for the day, and other information, then the shift changes were accomplished. I had decided the best way to "run" our hospital, as far as physician medical care was, was to just overlay the customary stateside hospital policies onto our own desert EVAC. Things like peer review, and very importantly, to always be sure that if a MD left on an all day trip to a field phone bank or a PX, to be sure they had "checked out" their patients to another doctor.

We were up and running when I was told to drive over to our logistics HQ and pick up another physician to add to our staff. So drove down Tap Line Road and returned with a pediatric diabetic specialist in solo practice in a Midwestern city. Assigned him to one of the three physician GP mediums and within two days, the doctors there told me the were kicking him out, and would not tolerate him in their residence. He was a small, scrawny, wizened man, who had the bizarre habit when he was frustrated or upset, of clawing at his face with his hands and growling. He was just one of those people whom are intensely aggravating and irritating to be around, just incredibly obnoxious. No wonder he was in solo practice. Perhaps his patients were devoted and trusting of him, but his personalty was beyond tolerating. We had a spare, unoccupied hex tent, so I told him to move his stuff there. I called HQ and was told he had been returned by three other hospitals, and they weren't going to take him back. He was our problem.

He soon earned the sobriquet of "Ferret Face."

Soon, I had it out with him....

I was pretty busy with challenging fluid and electrolyte problems, esp in the Iraqi infants and children. Here an infant in our hospital. Our staff gently held this child to feed and nature him, and he was only down for a moment with his bottle, so I snapped a pic of this refugee child; we did not just prop it for him.

Next, what happened when I exerted my command authority as a LTC over COL Ferret Face.

SF VET

 

[Greyman50]

Also known as Puff the Magic Dragon (a popular folk song of the period). A cargo plane equipped with 7.62mm automatic cannons (mini-guns) capable of a cyclic rate of nearly 6000 rounds per minute each (although typically tuned-down to around 2000 to avoid burning up the barrels prematurely). C-47 (the venerable military version of the DC-3), C-119, C-130 Hercules (now more popularly known as the AC-130 gunship). At least one iteration was tried with a 105mm howitzer mounted on the tail ramp; never saw that personally.

From the ground it was usually possible to hear the aircraft engines, but night-time engagements seldom allowed a view of the aircraft. When the General Electric mini-guns fired the sound was similar to a large zipper being pulled, no sense of individual shots. Every 5th round was a tracer so the incoming fire appeared very much like a red laser beam from the sky to the ground. I would compare it to the finger of a very angry god.

Gunships (UH-1, AH-64 helicopters) were great for close support. Attack aircraft (F4, F105, USAF, USN, USMC) could provide extra punch with 20mm cannon, bombs, napalm. Puff the Magic Dragon could assume an orbit around a ground position and loiter for an hour or two, in radio contact and responding to specific directions for shifting fire to the necessary places, away from friendlies on the ground.

Awesome weapon system! No matter how much we requested there was never an invoice for the thousands of rounds delivered. At 30-plus rounds per second, per gun, my paltry salary would never be enough to pay for what I was asking for.

Remember many a night sitting on top of a bunker with starlight scope when all of a sudden there was this red stream from the sky. Could kinda guess the distance once you heard the ruuuuuuuupt sound.

 

[M E Morrison]

Remember many a night sitting on top of a bunker with starlight scope when all of a sudden there was this red stream from the sky. Could kinda guess the distance once you heard the ruuuuuuuupt sound.

So what was that scope attached to?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

So what was that scope attached to?

During my time in Vietnam (1969-1971) the starlight scopes were used primarily for night surveillance. There were weapon mounts for the M16, M14, and other infantry weapons but those combinations were generally restricted to specialty units (snipers).

Another version of the starlight scope was considerably larger and had far greater light intensification capability and magnification. Some of those were coupled with M2 Browning .50 BMG for use as long range night interdiction weapons. Again, restricted applications and units.

The starlight scope itself was classified Top Secret and subject to very close accountability. Those entrusted with use were required to hold TS clearance and complete a briefing on accountability and use, then sign a non-disclosure agreement subject to general court martial. I recall the briefing included the orders to destroy the scope in the event of imminent overrun or capture, using the rifle to fire a round directly through the optics end-to-end. The units were issued only for specific missions, uses, and time frames, never for general operational uses in my experience.

Not every unit had starlight scopes. Very few with starlight scopes also had coupled weapons systems. Not every soldier was qualified by training or security clearance to be allowed anywhere near the equipment.

As I commented in an earlier post, I was surprised to see superior night vision equipment advertised in Cabelas and Gander Mountain catalogs only about 15 years later.

The first generation of night vision devices were super-secret, closely held, and subject to the greatest degrees of scrutiny, real hush-hush stuff. The equipment did not turn pitch dark into daytime, only accomplishing a collection of shades in green and black that might (or might not) identify shapes or movement. As it turns out in retrospect, they were rather crude and ineffective in comparison to the later improved technologies.

 

[Greyman50]

Similar to this. Large compared to todays.Looked through my pics and looks I never got a pic of one. Came in a foam fitted case, hand held with a “ cat eye lens cover to keep light out. Turned on, after came on there was a kind of hum sound. Good to few 100 yards. Images were kind of shaded with a green haze around everything.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Post script thoughts:

Anyone who has ever used a rifle equipped with optics (telescopic sight, laser sight, whatever) knows that it is not possible to simply screw the device onto the rifle and start pouring accurate fire at any range. The sighting device becomes a part of the weapon, carefully adjusted to perform in synch with that particular weapon. Interchangeability is generally impossible. Removal and replacement on the same weapon is unlikely to produce the desired result.

Greyman50's photo shown above displays the large starlight scope mounted to a M2 .50 BMG, and presumably zero'd for that specific weapon. Very effective for fixed defensive positions. The M2 Browning Heavy Barrel is capable of single-selective fire, mounted on a tripod with traversing and elevation mechanism, and capable of hitting human targets at ranges up to one mile or vehicles at up to two miles, at night using the starlight scope. But the combination of weapon, tripod, T&E, starlight scope weighed well over 100 lbs., not something that could be easily moved or deployed outside of fixed positions.

Major installation, reinforced steel tower or on top of tall buildings or bunkers, very effective (assuming a skilled operator, etc).

For the troops in the field or in small forward bases the starlight scopes were mostly useful for surveillance of perimeters and approach routes during the hours of darkness. Even for those uses the starlights were not handed out like standard equipment or passed from hand to hand; individuals were designated based upon security clearance and training, and accountability for the equipment was a major priority.

No one wanted to be the GI who couldn't produce the starlight scope when it was time to turn it back in. No one wanted to be in the chain of command if a starlight scope went missing. The Mother of All Investigations was likely to flag every potential malefactor for extreme prejudice at the soon-to-be-convened court martial board (not likely to be open to the public because of the classified data involved).

Similar procedures and accountability were enforced for encrypted communications equipment and the devices used for encrypting and decrypting classified communications. The designator "crypto" was added to the Top Secret clearance for those of us authorized to play with those toys (and be personally responsible for accountability). Everything was issued on as-needed basis for specific operations or missions, then accounted for before any other minor considerations (like medical care, crotch-rot treatment, parasitic infections).

The Army really took such things very seriously, back in my days. There was nothing casual about checking out a starlight scope, KAK-wheels, code books, or other classified documents and equipment. Leavenworth was always looking over the horizon for its next resident.

 

[lkabug]

We were also issued Thermite Grenades when the Starlight Scope was Checked out.
If in danger of being overran we were to shoot through the lens and ignite the Thermite Grenade. It was not to be left behind in one piece.

 

[llowry61]

Post script thoughts:

Anyone who has ever used a rifle equipped with optics (telescopic sight, laser sight, whatever) knows that it is not possible to simply screw the device onto the rifle and start pouring accurate fire at any range. The sighting device becomes a part of the weapon, carefully adjusted to perform in synch with that particular weapon. Interchangeability is generally impossible. Removal and replacement on the same weapon is unlikely to produce the desired result.

Greyman50's photo shown above displays the large starlight scope mounted to a M2 .50 BMG, and presumably zero'd for that specific weapon. Very effective for fixed defensive positions. The M2 Browning Heavy Barrel is capable of single-selective fire, mounted on a tripod with traversing and elevation mechanism, and capable of hitting human targets at ranges up to one mile or vehicles at up to two miles, at night using the starlight scope. But the combination of weapon, tripod, T&E, starlight scope weighed well over 100 lbs., not something that could be easily moved or deployed outside of fixed positions.

Major installation, reinforced steel tower or on top of tall buildings or bunkers, very effective (assuming a skilled operator, etc).

For the troops in the field or in small forward bases the starlight scopes were mostly useful for surveillance of perimeters and approach routes during the hours of darkness. Even for those uses the starlights were not handed out like standard equipment or passed from hand to hand; individuals were designated based upon security clearance and training, and accountability for the equipment was a major priority.

No one wanted to be the GI who couldn't produce the starlight scope when it was time to turn it back in. No one wanted to be in the chain of command if a starlight scope went missing. The Mother of All Investigations was likely to flag every potential malefactor for extreme prejudice at the soon-to-be-convened court martial board (not likely to be open to the public because of the classified data involved).

Similar procedures and accountability were enforced for encrypted communications equipment and the devices used for encrypting and decrypting classified communications. The designator "crypto" was added to the Top Secret clearance for those of us authorized to play with those toys (and be personally responsible for accountability). Everything was issued on as-needed basis for specific operations or missions, then accounted for before any other minor considerations (like medical care, crotch-rot treatment, parasitic infections).

The Army really took such things very seriously, back in my days. There was nothing casual about checking out a starlight scope, KAK-wheels, code books, or other classified documents and equipment. Leavenworth was always looking over the horizon for its next resident.

If history is any lesson in keeping code's secret think about the impact on WW2 when the British got their hands on the Enigma machine and codes books off the sub. It could change the outcome of a war.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

We were also issued Thermite Grenades when the Starlight Scope was Checked out.
If in danger of being overran we were to shoot through the lens and ignite the Thermite Grenade. It was not to be left behind in one piece.

An excellent idea! The thermite grenade is like a cutting torch in a can; place it where you want to destroy something, ignite, stand back and watch it burn through just about anything. Steel, armor plate, reinforced concrete, no problem. Put one on top of your V-8 engine and watch it burn through the bottom in a minute or less.

We carried thermite grenades on recovery operations for downed aircraft. Anything that could not be readily recovered and hauled away needed to be destroyed in place. Classified equipment, encrypted radio gear, such things went first with thermites. Then the airframe could be destroyed and incinerated by a few small charges of C4 explosive, maybe a little detonating cord.

 

[fordson]

As part of my ABDR unit in DS, I had a small aircraft recovery team. Their standing orders were to destroy anything they couldn’t recover using the thermite grenades. The team was quite busy, more so after the fighting stopped, but they never had to use the grenades. Some of their efforts were very interesting, one involving transporting a recovered aircraft under a low bridge/overpass. In the end, aircraft won the contest……

 

[Greyman50]

If history is any lesson in keeping code's secret think about the impact on WW2 when the British got their hands on the Enigma machine and codes books off the sub. It could change the outcome of a war.

For those interested there are several books on Bletchley Park where the Brits had a few German Enigma machines. The Poles actually got a few during the invasion early in the war. Enigma taken from the U- boat gave us what was needed to read their Naval code. Bletchley Park built quiet many Enigmas. Each would be set differently and run until a message came out.

 

[16thVACav]

"The Imitation Game", available on Netflix and elsewhere, is a very good movie about how the Enigma machine codes were cracked.

 

[Greyman50]

Books beat any movie or some other “ production”. Find and Read “ A Man called Intrepid”, the basis of James Bond…Some info on the enigma code machines. All my history books are packed up or would list them.

 

[Sistema1927]

C-130 Hercules (now more popularly known as the AC-130 gunship). At least one iteration was tried with a 105mm howitzer mounted on the tail ramp; never saw that personally.

The 105mm is not on the tail ramp of the AC-130, but rather on the port side, just forward of the ramp, on the same side as the rest of the armament.

 

[M E Morrison]

The 105mm is not on the tail ramp of the AC-130, but rather on the port side, just forward of the ramp, on the same side as the rest of the armament.

True on current models, but there was an experimental model to see if airframe would handle recoil, etc.

 

[Sistema1927]

True on current models, but there was an experimental model to see if airframe would handle recoil, etc.

Not arguing, but do you have a source for this? My understanding is that all of the armament of the AC series has always been on the port side and I don't know how it would work for the howitzer to face the rear where they would not be able to aim until going away from the target.

 

[M E Morrison]

Not arguing, but do you have a source for this? My understanding is that all of the armament of the AC series has always been on the port side and I don't know how it would work for the howitzer to face the rear where they would not be able to aim until going away from the target.

Saw some pics, back in the day. I imagine aiming it was the downfall.