Snubby in Vietnam

[Sistema1927]

Dad did 32 weeks of Vietnamese Language training 1968-69 at Biggs Field (Ft. Bliss, TX) before his tour 1969-70. Here is his appraisal of the course:

"It was a great class. If you flunked out, they sent you to Vietnam. If you passed, they sent you to Vietnam."

His in country experience was such that he determined that he would NOT go back, and put in his retirement papers almost immediately upon his DEROS with 21 years service.

 

[YkcorCal]

I occasionally would get around with the help of the Brown Water Navy, in their jet boats, PBR's, ie, Patrol Boat River. They had jets not props, and assorted armaments. This is my Boston Whaler up in Camau, we could make the run in an hour or so, if both engines worked, never a sure thing. My Province US HQ was up in Camau, which had been badly sacked by the VC and Main Force in Tet of '68. When the Vietnamese LTC would go any where in my Whaler, he would load it up with a whole squad, which made it just slowly plow thru the water, and make us in my opinion sitting ducks for an ambush from the riverside. If I made a run, it would be just one or two bodyguards and perhaps Son or Kahn. Our Whaler was so waterlogged with bullet holes it would never get up on a plane.

This PBR has recoilless rifles up front, others had some sort of short barrel 81mm mortar firing gun.

We almost always made sure we could make it back home before evening came. I rarely went up to HQ, was much better to keep a low profile, and just try to be overlooked in whatever plans were afoot.

All the best... and stay safe, SF VET

Have any pics of the river monitor gunboats? I heard some were armed to the teeth some with a 105 howitzer and some flame thrower models. I would not want to tangled with a 105 howitzer armed with beehive rounds. I did my basic training for ROTC future officers at Fort Sill, OK. and saw those things demonstrated on targets. I would NOT want to be on the receiving end of those things.

 

[SF VET]

this is the Plane of Reeds, and the local's made sure to wash their meals before preparing them. Happy Hog...

All the best, and stay safe.... SF VET

 

[SF VET]

One of my first assignments out of Cau Lan at the edge of the Plain of Reeds was to head out to some-where and try to teach local Vietnamese troops how to call in US airsupport. The Vietnamese were establishing little hamlets and small compounds to protect the former. The Plain was just water with waving reeds, with unpredictable depths, a few feet to a dozen or more. One could't tell by just looking down from a 'copter how deep it was. It was common for a Vietnamese Commander to order a solder to jump down and see if he could stand or just disappear out of sight.

Us US troops had very ambiguous orders. You would think an order given to us advisors would be something like...."You will depart at xxx hours, proceed to xxxx, accomplish xxx mission, and when Mission Complete, return."

Actually, it was just "...you and SGT X get yourselves out to around xxx, and do what you can to try to xxx, and get yourselves back in maybe a week or so."

In a few days after reporting in, I and the pistol-toting SSG hoped a ride out to a small hamlet with such a compound. I had a 4 year obligation but was just beginning to have some vague thoughts of possibly a career in medicine, vague because no one in my family was remotely in any medical field. The very first evening at my post, the local's asked me to see a young girl who had been somehow shot thru a lung. I examined the frightened hurting, dying child and told them they had to immediately put her in a small sampan, and get her to province. They all adamantly refused, saying there was no way they were risking going at night anywhere. So I radioed US, and asked for a Medivac for her, but was turned down. In some sort of need to do something, I wrapped her in my poncho liner, the quilted nylon blanket, and told the locals they had to go. I soon came back and they told me that indeed, she was on her way. I never saw her again, and soon realized they had just moved her to another hut.

When this episode was over, I sat down and had to find a way to come to some sort of peace with what I could and could not do in this war. And I did, and from then on, and in the years since, when confronted with awfulness in people and children, found my own comfort and peace by believing that they had bad Karma, or the wrong God, or bad luck, but I had not caused it, and could only do what I could. And be at peace with that.

From this and other events I was beginning to forge a new life path and passion.

Here is the "hootch" the two of us stayed in for that week. Was the dry season, so no need for a roof. These locals were perpetually napping and drunk, and had little interest in any training I was attempting. And I was never able to replace my poncho liner, and learned to sleep when cold anyway, without any sort of cover.

All the best and stay safe.... SFVET

 

[YkcorCal]

If my Professor of Military Science at Eastern New Mexico University had given me my first choice of branch assignments my life could have been very different as I wanted Infantry. My second cousin was the commanding General at Ft. Benning at the time. But my request was repeatedly refused because there was only one Infantry slot left and he was holding it for a guy who tried to get out of going into the Army after graduating college. I always wondered what happened to "that guy"? Go figure. Life does not go as planned.

Keep the great posts coming guys!

 

[SF VET]

well, you just never know. When I graduated as a DMG after a ROTC scholarship and was given an Regular Army commission as a 2nd LT I requested Armor, because in my prior year summer camp at Ft Riley KS my experience with tanks was a lot of fun.

Nope, was assigned Infanry. Turned out OK for me.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET

 

[YkcorCal]

well, you just never know. When I graduated as a DMG after a ROTC scholarship and was given an Regular Army commission as a 2nd LT I requested Armor, because in my prior year summer camp at Ft Riley KS my experience with tanks was a lot of fun.

Nope, was assigned Infanry. Turned out OK for me.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET

I was a ROTC scholarship myself. Small world. I spent three years in the Counter Insurgency Unit of my ROTC unit run by a Green Beret cadre. I got stuck in Air Defense Artillery which was as about as far from the Infantry I wanted to be in as I could get. Three years of training even on the weekends and nights running in the desert night air with an M14 over my head until my lungs felt like they would burst, practicing L-shaped ambushes, and oh so much more because I was sooooo gung ho on my own time voluntarily. They taught us "to do to the VC what the VC does to everyone else" as one of the Green Beret instructors said. Learning interrogation techniques from a Green Beret Major that I believe just may have invented some of them. Then I get stuck in Air Defense Artillery when I am volunteering for INFANTRY while others are getting stuck in infantry when they don't want it? Weird right?

I let my pride get in the way. I should have called my 2nd cousin that was commanding at Ft. Benning at the time and see if he could pull some strings for me! But no I was to bull headed and prideful to go to family for help.

After I got out of the regular Army and resigned my commission just before Grenada I joined the only US Army Airborne Infantry National Guard Unit. It was in Texas and full of a bunch of former vets mixed with fired up Texas weekend warriors led by former Vietnam multiple tour combat vets. Soldier of Fortune magazine heard about our little kingdom and came down to write an article on us. They praised us so highly it and above all the regular Army active duty units except the 82nd and 101st Airborne that it so ticked of the straitleg Pentagon types they proceeded to disband our unit in Texas and move it to the Socialist Republic of California for some years but could not get enough volunteers there. GO Figure! I had refused to accept my commission back but rather accepted E-5 rank. My Captain ( a three tour combat Vietnam vet) called me in after reading my file and tried to get me to reconsider taking my commission back. I agreed that if after one year in his unit if he still felt the same about me I would. It never happened as our unit was disbanded as mentioned above. By the time clearer heads in the Pentagon finally moved to unit back to Texas years I was now in my mid 40's and was just OVER all the "****" and no real support the Pentagon or USA for that matter was giving us so I was finally over it all. I did at least achieve 11B status though only briefly.

When Grenada happened we were called up and were on the flight line at Ellington Field sitting in rows with C-130s standing by to transport us as combat relief for the 82nd Airborne if needed. We were eventually released as we were not needed.

 

[SF VET]

The plan, at least so far as I could tell, was for the Vietnamese to establish small hamlets way out in the Plain of Reeds, and build small defensive compounds for their protection. I didn't question this strategy at the time, but as I matured in my concept of "pacification", it was a flawed plan, especially with the troops who garrisoned these compounds.

If a purely defensive posture is maintained, it leaves the insurgents free to chose when and where to act. Lessons learned from defeating the Mau-Mau, and making progress against foes like the Shining Path, or hunting down Che. You have to take the battle to them, and maintain pressure with the initiative. Make the enemy react to you, not the reverse of that.

Anyway, out in the Plain, the locals could not farm, but only try to fish. The local troops had no interest in doing anything other than drinking and sleeping, once they built their sanctuary.

It was futile fore me to try to change that mindset.

When a unit in contact communicates with supporting air assets and marks their position with smoke, you would not say. ".. I have yellow smoke out at my position'. because Chuck would be listening in and also throw yellow smoke.

So you would just say "... smoke out." and let the pilots confirm your color. But it was necessary to try to confuse the listening enemy by the pilot not just saying '.... I have yellow."

So I tried to teach slang phrases the pilots would use like "... I had banana for breakfast", or "...I like cherry pie".... or "... I had grape nuts for breakfast.." or if white smoke, "... our leader lives in a white house".

As you can imagine it was hopeless. My assistant and I would hang around for a week or so, eating the local rice and soy sauce and whatever was around, usually duck in some fashion. Our pickup would be some chopper flying around the area on this or that task.

When I would get back to my own compound, time for a hot shower and chow, clean my weapons, and see what was happening in the world.

I was a MAT leader for six months in this capacity, and it seemed to me that the time passed very quickly. My jungle fatigues were becoming a nice worn and ragged appearance, important when I would have a meal up at the Officer's Club in Saigon. Sort of a way to show a "been there, done that" look.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET

 

[BillBond]

SF VET you should write a book or two.
Plus have a bunch of your great color photographs in there too.
Most books I read about Vietnam have a few grainy b&w pictures.

 

[skwchock]

I was at Udorn Thani RTAFB, Thailand. I saw pilots who brought their own weapons with them from the states. I figure if your life depended upon your weapon, then you need to have a weapon that you are comfortable with (and are proficient). The only place that there were weapons was at the Wing CP. (2 M16s and a few mags). When the base was overrun by the VC, there were very few weapons that AF personnel had access to ... the base was "supposed" to be defended by the Royal Thai Army ... they were "absent" went the attack happened and did not return until the VC left.

 

[SF VET]

These combat veterans stationed in the Plain of Reeds. Life was easy for them, they never ventured out to hunt the local bad guys. The troop on the far right, to my left, was perpetually drunk, and would follow me around and salute me. I would never have trusted him with any sharp blade or firearm. The other happy guy is Mr. Lucky, himself. If something were to go down, I doubt they could have located their weapons.

All the best.... and stay safe, SF VET

 

[SF VET]

But if you had to venture outside the wire, I think most of us would rather go with chaps like these two troopers. These are part of my bodyguard team way down south, where I spent my second six months. These fellows liked killing, and would come back with "trophies" of their nocturnal adventures. They had a rather serious attitude about the business at hand.

All the best, and stay safe..... SF VET

 

[jpage]

Are those 40mm rounds secured with rubber bands ?

 

[Sistema1927]

But if you had to venture outside the wire, I think most of us would rather go with chaps like these two troopers. These are part of my bodyguard team way down south, where I spent my second six months. These fellows liked killing, and would come back with "trophies" of their nocturnal adventures. They had a rather serious attitude about the business at hand.

All the best, and stay safe..... SF VET

Reminds me of a taxi ride that I had in Korea when I was stationed there in 83-84. As soon as the driver picked us up at the camp gate, he started to tell his Vietnam war stories. Pretty bloody and gruesome, but he seemed to really be enjoying himself. Don't know if he was just trying to impress a couple of US GIs, or if he really was a stone cold killer. I have heard stories about the ferocity of ROK soldiers and Marines in Vietnam, so maybe he was the real deal.

 

[YkcorCal]

Anyone have any dealings with the Nung?

Pic of a Vulcan Air Defense APC repurposed for ground defense.

The 20MM gun fires at 3,000 rounds per minute in short bursts of 10, 30, 60, or 100 rounds, or it can fire in continuous fire mode in ground mode. Its 20x102mm round gave it a low effective range of only 1,200 meters, and its standard air-defense load of HEI-T rounds would self-destruct at approximately 1800 meters, a hard limit on range.

A platoon of four VULCANs plus one maintenance float was deployed to RVN and assigned to an automatic weapons artillery battalion.

The platoon was further attached to automatic weapons artillery
batteries in support of ground elements in the III and IV Corps
Tactical Zones.


The VULCANs were tactically employed during a five-month period on missions similar to those assigned to the MU2 UQBB Duster units and the M55 Quad .50 caliber machinegun units. These missions included convoy security, reconnaissance in force, security for mine sweep operations and engineer quarry operations, security for medical civic action prog/ams, show-of-force runs, perimeter defense, and ambush patrols.

The cyclic rate of high explosive fire was unsurpassed by any other ground combat weapon in RVN, and supported units were highly impressed with the additional firepower provided by the VULCAN. The XM166 cannon proved to be a highly reliable and durable weapon. All shortcomings found in ether components of the system are surmountable with no major retrofit requirements.

In view of the limited number of VULCANs committed for the combat evaluation, meaningful experience factors regarding total equipment and resupply requirements were not developed. However, several findings were established regarding TOE changes pertaining to personnel and equipment.

The VULCAN system was highly effective in RVN and it is recommended that TOE VULCAN organizations be deployed to RVN for use in a ground role.

Let us get something straight I was never in country RVN! The above is to honor my ADA brothers that were; not to try to take any honor from them!

 

[Ziggy2525]

But if you had to venture outside the wire, I think most of us would rather go with chaps like these two troopers. These are part of my bodyguard team way down south, where I spent my second six months. These fellows liked killing, and would come back with "trophies" of their nocturnal adventures. They had a rather serious attitude about the business at hand.

All the best, and stay safe..... SF VET

It doesn’t sound like you were directly attached to an ARVN infantry unit or district malita. When you worked directly with the district chief like that, were you considered part of the Phoenix Program?

 

[SF VET]

A reply to several questions.

I shot K'chrome and Ectachrome I would buy at the Saigon PX, but was very careful of "wasting" my pics, as I only had a few rolls available to me at a time. Kodachrome was I think rated at ASA 25, the Ectachrome at 160. The former is fade proof to heat, but continued exposure to light from a hot projector can in time fade them. E'chrome fades both from heat and light, and is not really archival stable. Plus a lot more grainy, I can tell the difference in them when viewing. You can develop E'chrome at home, K'chrome had to be professionally developed, no longer available. I shot a few rolls of print film. A few years ago, I asked the editor of the National Geographic Traveler Magazine what I could do with my slides, and he told me they no longer scanned their own, but sent them for high-resolution scanning by the company ScanCafe, you can look them up.

I am aware of the flechette artillery loads, but don't recall ever being around them. There are accounts of how devastating they were in repelling attacks.

I never had any direct contact with regular ARVN troops, but did accompany my local units when we passed thru areas they had operated in. Had to hold my breath when passing the piles of decaying bodies they piled up. By the way, the local VC/Main Force did not wear black "pajamas", but rather a shade of blue.

My counterparts were not militia nor ARVN or Ranger, or the equivalent of our own National Guard. They were full-time solders, of vastly varying enthusiasm and leadership.

Here is a pic of my counterpart in my second six months, a LTC, who in my experience was a good tactical commander. Spoke fluent English, and had been to some of American military schools. His residence was in the other end of our metal building.

Here, he is talking with the "mayor" of a tiny hamlet. The VC killed the mayor several days later. I was told they put his head on a stake but I don't know that for sure. Trying to be loyal to either side was a precarious and risky endeavor.

Stay safe, and all the best.... SF VET

 

[Cooter Brown]

I don't come to this part of the forum much and I ran across this thread when I accidentally clicked on it.

Fascinating and sobering stuff and I hope you keep posting it.

You also have a good eye, particularly for taking pictures of people, which is really hard to do well consistently.

 

[ron_c]

Here, he is talking with the "mayor" of a tiny hamlet. The VC killed the mayor several days later. I was told they put his head on a stake but I don't know that for sure. Trying to be loyal to either side was a precarious and risky endeavor.

These people could be in danger just talking to either side.

It seemed most could care less which side ran the show, they just wanted to be left alone so they could get on with life.

 

[SF VET]

Hitchhiking

Deep in the Delta, if I wanted to go somewhere too far or too risky to go in our sluggish, waterlogged Boston Whaler with two unreliable 40 HP Johnsons, I would get on the radio and ask if any choppers where out and about, and ask if they could drop by and pick me up. Sort of like Rotary Uber, and usually I would ride along as the chopper continued on its rounds. Sometimes to sling out a downed "bird", or drop off a sling load of ammo somewhere, sometimes for an administrative mission. Once, spent a few hours and lunch at a big US Chopper base, and wondered why the crews and support there had such lousy facilities. My shower was so much cleaner than theirs, and the rest of the place was just really run down. Maybe sinking morale or poor leadership, to allow their command to live in such unnecessarily fetid conditions.

I like this pic, up a thousand feet, where the air was cool and clean just looking out at he abandoned rice paddies. Just relaxing in the nylon sling seats in the back of a slick.

Peaceful, cool and clean, heading somewhere for a break or with luck, a good meal.

All the best, and stay safe... SF VET