Snubby "sight picture".

[Horace & Daniel]

Holy cow. This is making my head hurt. OP, if you're lining up your sights by putting the orange painted area of YOUR sights between the rear sights, then yes, you will shoot high. Very high.

If you line your sights up like dubhelix has kindly illustrated with half a dozen different weapons, then you'll have much more accurate results.

This ain't rocket science.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Worst case, if he determines the problem can't be corrected through proper technique or ammo selection and he doesn't want to spend anymore money on the problem, would you recommend filing the front sight?

If anyone has done this, can they offer advice?

Yes.

I have done this, and I offer advice above.

H&D, how about ASKING the OP whether the gun shoots high with the orange aligned with the rear sights? My 342PD, and that of my LEO instructor friend, shot right on with sights so aligned. The OP should use the paint to get the sights aligned with his ammo, his grips and his grip, be SURE that that is what he wants to use, and then file the sight down close to the paint. Finishing touches should be interspersed with test firing.

 

[yeti127]

Before firing a handgun must be aligned with the barrel pointed to a position well below the intended point-of-impact. This is because the gun begins to recoil the instant the charge fires and the bullet begins to move. The gun will "climb" in recoil until, at the time the bullet actually leaves the muzzle, the barrel is actually pointed at the target or slightly above.

Not only can I confirm this but I have a relative story to share.
I purchased a 629 with 4" barrel, bought a couple hundred rounds of 180gr target loads for it at Dick's and went to sight it in.
Even with the adjustable rear sight all the way up, the screw looking like it's about to fall out, the gun was shooting low.
The front post also looked way to tall (not lined up with barrel). So I called Smith and pitched a fit about them putting the wrong post on the gun and they sent me a new one which I had installed. The gun shot perfect.
Then I tried some bear loads (bought the gun for backpacking) and the gun shot high. I put the rear sight all the way down and it's still shooting high.
$%$%^#$%
Doing some more shooting and checking revealed that at a mere 30' there was a 4" difference in POI between the 180gr target load and a 325gr cast load. It still irks me that the rear sight is not adjustable enough to cover all weights of ammo but c'est la vie.
Currently I'm shooting tight groups with it at 75' but they're still 3" high with my hand loads at that distance.

I might also be wrong but I think pistols don't experience this effect so dramatically because most have barrels that move straight back with the slide for the first little bit.
If I were you, I'd figure out what ammo I want to carry in that gun (I recommend Speer short barrel) and only then modify the sights as needed to suit that ammo.

 

[sac-gunslinger]

you may want a known good shooter to try your gun before any grinding takes place!

Short barrel revolvers take much time and practice to master especially shooting D/A. But the effort is well worth it and will improve your shooting skills immensely with all types of handguns.

Solid advice. How proficient are you with a medium frame DA revolver? When I was instructing, I always had my students start out with perfecting their DA skills on a medium frame revolver before transitioning over to small frame revolvers or to semi-autos. Good DA skills translate well to any other gun.

 

[sac-gunslinger]

WARNING: Aside from the usual warning about going slow on metal removal, you should know that the proper sight height will vary with bullet weight, and sometimes even with different cartridges with the same bullet weight. It will also vary with the grips on the revolver, and with YOUR grip on the revolver.

I have a 640 and a 642. I have standardized on shooting Buffalo's 125 grain standard pressure jacketed hollow point. Both guns shoot low consistently. The solution seems to be machining the front sight lower.

BUT I am ever so reluctant to do so. I am a licensed aircraft mechanic and have been working on metal parts for decades so I am always nervous about cutting metal, you can never add it back to the part. I have had to throw parts in the junk bin several times because I wanted to remove "just" 0.001" more material. Trust me, you can never remove just .001". And resale value drops dramatically if you have removed metal.

I am exploring other ways to adjust the guns so the POI is the same as POA. Maybe a red insert bar at the appropriate place on the front sight would be the answer.

Or maybe, because I tend to be obsessive about pursuing solutions to perceived problems, I should just learn how to hold a little higher and not start grinding on a perfectly good firearm. What a concept!

 

[george_lehr]

I just saw this thread tonight and feel bad that Ilike9mm had to endure so much abuse. I have several fixed sight S&W revolvers and the Model 36 is the only one that I have trouble with. I posted about it here and as yet have not done anything to correct the situation, but cutting the front sight down seems like the only choice if you want to use the sights.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/323932-model-36-front-sight-height-issue.html

George

 

[hotrod150]

IMHO this is one 2 year old thread that didn't need to be brought back to life.

 

[L Pete]

I know it's a dead thread, but I just gotta say I disagree with Col. Askins statement in part. I generally agree with everything in his statement, except the part about not shooting at anything over 30 feet. I think practice should include various distances past 30 feet. I think shooting at distance helps one become much better handgun shooter. And, anything that helps me become a better shooter, I'm just plain ol' for doing it. Well, that's my 2 cents worth.

 

[JAREDSHS]

IMHO this is one 2 year old thread that didn't need to be brought back to life.

my view exactly. the mods ought to lock this one up tight.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

my view exactly. the mods ought to lock this one up tight.

Why? (filler)

 

[JAREDSHS]

just my opinion---when your 76 years old you don't have to explain WHY.

 

[opr1945]

I read all this and get to here......and no resolution??????

 

[IHMSAhandgunner]

Tall front sight

I know this thread is old, but I know exactly what he is talking about (front sight so tall), I am 60 years old now, but when I was kid (been shooting since I was 6yrs old) my Dad had just such a gun, a tiny S&W 38 snub nose revolver, like an airweight with an exposed hammer, and a very tall front sight. I know all about sight picture, I have been shooting over 50 years, I am an excellent shot with iron sights. I've shot in IHMSA competition; shooting iron sighted handguns at 200 meters. And I am telling you that little 38's front sight was so tall that if you pointed the gun down far enough until the top of the front sight was even with the top of the back sight that you would be shooting into the dirt under the target at 25 yards using standard 158 gr 38 specials. I have searched the internet extensively as to why they made it this way, what the purpose was but have been unable to find anything on it other than this thread. So yes, all these years and still no answer. Maybe someone in their 80's or 90's that used to work for S&W can answer this.

 

[GT_80]

OBVIOUSLY, if you are contemplating this mod that in over 50 years of shooting I have never heard of someone needing to do, your sight picture is in need of correction, NOT your revolver. Get with an NRA Certified instructor who can help you with your technique BEFORE YOU RUIN THAT WEAPON.....(some KNOWLEDGEABLE pistoleros have filed SA front sights to achieve a common POA/POI with a CORRECT sight picture. That is NOT YOUR ISSUE ) BTW--welcome to the Forum.....

I agree- after 3 years of shooting many pistols, I finally figured out I was looking at the target wrong... I was focusing in on the sights on my gun vs looking at the target with the sights slightly blurry in my vision. I know, it's elementary and I should have known, but sometimes your stubborn mind can't do what you know you need to. My point of aim and targets match pretty stinking well now.

 

[IHMSAhandgunner]

I know this thread is old, but I know exactly what he is talking about (front sight so tall), I am 60 years old now, but when I was kid (been shooting since I was 6yrs old) my Dad had just such a gun, a tiny S&W 38 snub nose revolver, like an airweight with an exposed hammer, and a very tall front sight. I know all about sight picture, I have been shooting over 50 years, I am an excellent shot with iron sights. I've shot in IHMSA competition; shooting iron sighted handguns at 200 meters. And I am telling you that little 38's front sight was so tall that if you pointed the gun down far enough until the top of the front sight was even with the top of the back sight that you would be shooting into the dirt under the target at 25 yards using standard 158 gr 38 specials. I have searched the internet extensively as to why they made it this way, what the purpose was but have been unable to find anything on it other than this thread. So yes, all these years and still no answer. Maybe someone in their 80's or 90's that used to work for S&W can answer this.

Of course I was talking about lining up the sights the way a target shooter, or precision shooter would line them up, but I guess they figure a little snub nose .38 is meant for fast action point blank "point it in the general direction and pull the trigger" type shooting, so who would care what the sights do. ;-)
.

 

[SA1911]

A belly gun ain't an aiming gun. It's a pointing gun at very close range. A large front sight probably was an aid for shooter to point shoot using front sight only.

 

[rwsmith]

Wow, old thread...

SD pistols are sighted at POI. Target pistols are usually sighted at the 6 o'clock position of a circle on the target, but the POI is the bullseye.