I bought mine strictly as a tool for civic engineering if things come to that. Sighted in and bought 2k ammo. If somebody would dangle a nice classic rifle of interest to me they could talk me out of it easy.
So, I'm thinking it might be time for me to finally bite the bullet and get an AR...
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Never liked them. Bought one in case of civil emergency because of common usage, fired it enough to make sure it worked, and now it is mothballed. Not even sure which safe I left it in to collect dust.
The US passing over the FAL for the inferior Armalite was the greatest injustice and mistake of small arms history.
The US passing over the FAL for the inferior Armalite was the greatest injustice and mistake of small arms history.
The Colt LE6920 (M4) is pretty much the standard all others are judged by. I prefer the LE6720 due to the lighter barrel. I have a S&W M&P15 too and it’s a “good enough” carbine.
While I have several AR’s is various configurations I haven’t (and won’t) assemble my own and trust my life to it. The closest I’ve come to that is when I bought an assembled BCM lower, replaced the trigger (with a Geissele) and purchased a fully assembled BCM mid-length upper (fully floating barrel) and it is the most accurate AR I own. BCM makes good stuff.
While I have several AR’s is various configurations I haven’t (and won’t) assemble my own and trust my life to it. The closest I’ve come to that is when I bought an assembled BCM lower, replaced the trigger (with a Geissele) and purchased a fully assembled BCM mid-length upper (fully floating barrel) and it is the most accurate AR I own. BCM makes good stuff.
I currently have two AR-15s. A Rock River LAR-15 and a S&W M&P-15 Optics Ready Sport II. I like both of them, but if I was only going to take one of them to the range, the S&W would win out due to not having the fixed front sight in front of the scope.
shovelmike
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An excellent reason to get one or more!
I bought a Radical Arms AR, made in Texas. I went in my local FFL to browse, my wife (who formerly was a bit paranoid about guns prior to the so called "mostly peaceful demonstrations" and push for defunding the police), strongly encouraged me to get the AR while we can.
Good for home defense along with the pistols.
You can put together one that suits your needs. My eyes can't see anything without magnification. I have a couple 6920's, this is more useful. Joe
Based on your lengthy post, a basic S&W should meet your desire.
ColbyBruce
Member
Many AR buyers choose to replace the standard mil-spec furniture with various other brands. It can cost $100.00+/- to put a Magpul brand stock/grip/hand guard/trigger guard on an AR. Matrix Diversified Industries six piece kits of Magpul furniture can be found in various colors and patterns starting around $56.00 + shipping.
The first and third have MDI kits.
The first and third have MDI kits.
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I only have one, a S&W that I bought around a dozen years ago. Put a 4x scope and decent trigger on it. Sighted it in and stuck it back in the safe with six loaded magazines.
Early this spring a buddies cousin came over from Ireland so we went to the range and he got to play American citizen with an AR. He loved it and is now showing all his " mates" videos of him shooting it.
I was a bit surprised it was still grouping tight at 50 yds. POA/POI. Plus all the pre loaded mags functioned perfectly. Reloaded the mags, cleaned the gun and back in the safe. A friend from 60 years back will be visiting from New Jersey this winter. We plan on a range trip so he can make believe he's still an American citizen.
Still only have one AR in the safe but the J frames are reproducing.
Early this spring a buddies cousin came over from Ireland so we went to the range and he got to play American citizen with an AR. He loved it and is now showing all his " mates" videos of him shooting it.
I was a bit surprised it was still grouping tight at 50 yds. POA/POI. Plus all the pre loaded mags functioned perfectly. Reloaded the mags, cleaned the gun and back in the safe. A friend from 60 years back will be visiting from New Jersey this winter. We plan on a range trip so he can make believe he's still an American citizen.
Still only have one AR in the safe but the J frames are reproducing.
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Several years ago, realizing I had no experience with ARs of any kind, I became curious. The trite and adolescent reasoning "because the government says I shouldn't have one" didn't play into my decision to purchase three new Colt ARs. As a long-time handloader, a completely new venture into load development was what motivated me.
I bought Colt products because they've been making ARs longer than all the rest of the companies, small and large, who have been merely making copies of the Colt products. I figured the Colts would hold value better than the rest should I want to sell them if I lost interest in ARs.
I wouldn't consider assembling one on my own. Some of these may be excellent guns, some may be junk, but resale value overall is likely the poorest of any ARs.
For six months, I worked with my basically unaltered out-of-the-box ARs (except for scopes on two and an aperture sight on one that came without a rear sight). All these guns turned out to be quite accurate and functioned as they should with no problems. I fired several thousand rounds of handloads through these guns. I tried samples of about ten or twelve factory ammos and found them all to be a waste of money for anyone with a serious interest in accuracy with the exception of two or three expensive match ammos which generally equalled the accuracy of well-developed handloads.
In conclusion, I found the ARs offered nothing whatsoever over a good bolt-action .223 except the shooter can fire aimed shots a little faster and they have a greater magazine capacity. I'm not going to war and don't fantasize about it. Bolt-actions are more than adequate for me but may not be for others.
My ARs will eventually be sold as I don't shoot them. If I was to consider keeping one, it would be the A4 version with the fixed stock and no scope. It has a far more useful 20" barrel which gives better velocity and handles well, much better than the shorter barrel guns. I think these guns have superior looks without optical sights of any kind, just as they were originally designed.
I'll not criticize AR folks as our tastes are all different, but for a newcomer wanting to try out ARs, spend a bit more and go with a Colt product for reasons already listed.
I bought Colt products because they've been making ARs longer than all the rest of the companies, small and large, who have been merely making copies of the Colt products. I figured the Colts would hold value better than the rest should I want to sell them if I lost interest in ARs.
I wouldn't consider assembling one on my own. Some of these may be excellent guns, some may be junk, but resale value overall is likely the poorest of any ARs.
For six months, I worked with my basically unaltered out-of-the-box ARs (except for scopes on two and an aperture sight on one that came without a rear sight). All these guns turned out to be quite accurate and functioned as they should with no problems. I fired several thousand rounds of handloads through these guns. I tried samples of about ten or twelve factory ammos and found them all to be a waste of money for anyone with a serious interest in accuracy with the exception of two or three expensive match ammos which generally equalled the accuracy of well-developed handloads.
In conclusion, I found the ARs offered nothing whatsoever over a good bolt-action .223 except the shooter can fire aimed shots a little faster and they have a greater magazine capacity. I'm not going to war and don't fantasize about it. Bolt-actions are more than adequate for me but may not be for others.
My ARs will eventually be sold as I don't shoot them. If I was to consider keeping one, it would be the A4 version with the fixed stock and no scope. It has a far more useful 20" barrel which gives better velocity and handles well, much better than the shorter barrel guns. I think these guns have superior looks without optical sights of any kind, just as they were originally designed.
I'll not criticize AR folks as our tastes are all different, but for a newcomer wanting to try out ARs, spend a bit more and go with a Colt product for reasons already listed.
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margethatcher
Member
It may not be a better rifle than other makes, but a Colt will always retain more value.
I loaded 250 rds of GI dupe / 55gr FMJ. Only because I had split 500 bull bullets several years back. Charged with BL C2. Then decided didn’t want to use up powder & primers on them so just bough 2k Mil spec.
I’m not going to match shoot and my loads aren’t going to make any gain in long run. In my experience there was never any accuracy problems with GI ammo. We didn’t shoot bullseye with m16, pop ups. I would say 60% shot Sharp Shooter, 20% Marksman and 20% expert.
I’m not going to match shoot and my loads aren’t going to make any gain in long run. In my experience there was never any accuracy problems with GI ammo. We didn’t shoot bullseye with m16, pop ups. I would say 60% shot Sharp Shooter, 20% Marksman and 20% expert.
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For many, that level of accuracy is sufficient. Spending a litle more for good bullets and doing careful load development will usually show a very significant increase in accuracy, even with a new straight-out-of-the-box gun, alleged horrible trigger and all.
A lot of experienced bolt-action guys demand good accuracy and expect any gun, semi-auto or otherwise to do the same. Others just don't have a need or interest and that's fine, too.
I’m what you might call one of those experience bolt guys, along with the various other actions from Hornet to 375H&H-45/70. Like I said I have no intention of hunting or Target shooting with it.
The purpose and degree of accuracy called for is provided by good brand of Milspec.
I weight each charge for rifle cartridges on scale. Set charge light and trickle 0. Handgun - check every 10th charge dropped.
Not willing to do all that for AR. I might if I had a fancy Target job
Would rather use the time loading for a bolt gun.
Hell, I know a guy loading for a Colt AR that is dumping out Sierra bullets and weighing each one on a Lee Balance beam Scale and culling out the “bad” ones. He ask me if I had anything he could barrow to check bullets for “round”. Ridiculous. You may gain a little tighter group and that may be a factor in Target shooting the average AR shooter ain’t bullseye shooting.
The purpose and degree of accuracy called for is provided by good brand of Milspec.
I weight each charge for rifle cartridges on scale. Set charge light and trickle 0. Handgun - check every 10th charge dropped.
Not willing to do all that for AR. I might if I had a fancy Target job
Would rather use the time loading for a bolt gun.
Hell, I know a guy loading for a Colt AR that is dumping out Sierra bullets and weighing each one on a Lee Balance beam Scale and culling out the “bad” ones. He ask me if I had anything he could barrow to check bullets for “round”. Ridiculous. You may gain a little tighter group and that may be a factor in Target shooting the average AR shooter ain’t bullseye shooting.
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
I have several Colt AR/M4 carbines of various styles...all are perfectly reliable and accurate. I have a Remington 788 in .223 which is incredibly accurate and consistent with white box ammo. It's a 1:12" rate of twist so 55 grain is what it shoots...the others with tighter twists use heavier bullets so it's not a fair comparison. The 788 has a reputation for shooting above its price class and this one certainly does.
Comments about assembled guns are well taken. A proper selection in parts and careful assembly is required. You don't just buy a bunch of parts from various manufacturers and expect them to just go together and shoot well. Different tolerances...different quality control...all affect how the final product will perform.
There are a lot of AR/M4 carbines on the market from any numbers of companies...some out of business. During the panic buying the last decade there were a number of start-ups trying to take advantage of the high prices and were buying excess capacity parts from suppliers that sometimes had sketchy quality control. Once the buying spree ran out some of these companies closed their doors leaving anyone who had a problem gun out in the cold.
Be careful out there when it comes to guns with little known names on them...you might be buying a problem but you also might get a good one.
For a long time I felt I didn't 'need' one......
I didn't 'need' one. Until I shot an AK and didn't care for it. Then I shot an AR and was HIGHLY impressed with the comfort and ergonomics. So I got two. It's now on the list of one of my 'funnest' guns and accompanies me on most range visits. It's economical for a rifle, too. I shoot .223 because at 25 to 100 yards (Max) it's plenty powerful enough.
Note: Another kicker was when they said they were going to 'ban' them. I put together the two lowers and for expediency bought the assembled uppers. Now I'd like to go back and do an 'upper'.
I didn't 'need' one. Until I shot an AK and didn't care for it. Then I shot an AR and was HIGHLY impressed with the comfort and ergonomics. So I got two. It's now on the list of one of my 'funnest' guns and accompanies me on most range visits. It's economical for a rifle, too. I shoot .223 because at 25 to 100 yards (Max) it's plenty powerful enough.
Note: Another kicker was when they said they were going to 'ban' them. I put together the two lowers and for expediency bought the assembled uppers. Now I'd like to go back and do an 'upper'.
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I'll say this, you most definitely should have at least one. As far as the S&W ARs, you can't go wrong with them. I have three different versions of M&P15 rifles and have never had a single issue with any of them.
I made the acquaintance of the AR family way back in the last century and while I didn't like it, I carried it where, when and as issued. Naturally, this also involved a few from different makers. Product improvement and mission creep changed what had been a light handy rifle, to one heavier, more robust and reliable. Over the decades I came to appreciate it's good points.
So, the M&P15 (NOT the Sport) will run right along side a properly built Colt (they've had their QC issues over decades). Based upon watching a variety of makes perform-or fail to-in various training settings, I have an extremely short list of makers I'm willing to spend my own money on. I also personally prefer the mid-length gas system to the carbine, assists reliability. The S&W is a good product, go for it! My preferences in furniture are a Mag-Pul hand guard and a BCM pistol grip that has both the filler at the rear and an angle similar to that of a 1911.
BTW, get some of both the 20 & 30 round mags. The 20's are a bit handier and if you use a couple different types of ammo, you tell which is which by what magazine you've got in your hand.
So, the M&P15 (NOT the Sport) will run right along side a properly built Colt (they've had their QC issues over decades). Based upon watching a variety of makes perform-or fail to-in various training settings, I have an extremely short list of makers I'm willing to spend my own money on. I also personally prefer the mid-length gas system to the carbine, assists reliability. The S&W is a good product, go for it! My preferences in furniture are a Mag-Pul hand guard and a BCM pistol grip that has both the filler at the rear and an angle similar to that of a 1911.
BTW, get some of both the 20 & 30 round mags. The 20's are a bit handier and if you use a couple different types of ammo, you tell which is which by what magazine you've got in your hand.
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Every serious gun owner should have, among other guns, an AR-15 of some sort, along with an AK-47 of some sort, a .30 something caliber bolt action rifle, a .22 something bolt action rifle, a 9 mm and .45 ACP pistol, a 12 gauge shotgun, a .38/.357 magnum revolver, and a .22 revolver . . .
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