i am a nonlisencee who sells guns often. i'd like to think that i understand them correctly. as long as i ship to an ffl, then it's ok. a rifle or shotgun can go usps or contract carrier. a handgun must be overnighted and sent by a contract carrier. here is where i get confused. the rule says that a contract carrier must be told it is a firearm and the box must have no markings indicating that it is a gun. but according to this thread, ups and fed ex won't accept it if they know it's a gun? this makes no sense. and if they won't accept it then who is a common contracter who will? please explain
So the story goes about the 586 no dash
- Thread starter olin
- Start date
mr mag - I had to come back to change something on my last post and noticed your post. In my experience with ups and sending guns in for custom work - you have to take it to a hub center- the retail stores in strip malls will not accept. but the main building the shipping and receiving place will where ever that is located - figure to spend at least 50 something depending on insurance it can be much more..you must be sending it to an ffl holder - then you can figure on another 30 or so to have it shipped back if its for custom work.
the good news is they ship it back to you directly and there are no ffl fees involved.. no they do not want you to mark it as a gun - but when you hand it to the clerk you have to tell them that it is a gun for the insurance purposes. so you tell them the gun and and how much you want it insured for and that way they can check the guns value if it goes missing. I have never used fed ex except for ground delivery ammo - pretty cheap all things considered.
the good news is they ship it back to you directly and there are no ffl fees involved.. no they do not want you to mark it as a gun - but when you hand it to the clerk you have to tell them that it is a gun for the insurance purposes. so you tell them the gun and and how much you want it insured for and that way they can check the guns value if it goes missing. I have never used fed ex except for ground delivery ammo - pretty cheap all things considered.
Mag,
No, that's not what I said.
People keep confusing UPS with UPS Stores, and Fedex with Kinko's/Fedex outlets.
Corporate policy at both CONTRACT CARRIERS prohibits UPS STORES and Fedex OUTLETS from accepting firearms for shipments.
That means NO guns accepted at a strip mall UPS STORE or a Kinko's that also runs a side Fedex service on their premises.
Both carriers require firearms be accepted at, and shipped from, terminals or hubs.
UPS STORES and Kinko's sites are not owned by UPS or Fedex, and have different shipping rules.
You may occasionally find a clerk at either a UPS store or a Kinko's/Fedex site that will accept guns for shipping, if they do they violate policies out of ignorance.
You DO advise counter personnel at a UPS HUB and a Fedex TERMINAL that you are shipping a firearm.
You are NOT required to notify a postal clerk it's a gun. They'll typically ask no more than if the package contains anything hazardous (or similar wording), and don't require you to disclose if it's a firearm or not.
Olin,
Your posts contained material advising people to "...lie your ass off."
You posted erroneous info regarding US Postal shipping regulations.
I did no character assasination.
Denis
No, that's not what I said.
People keep confusing UPS with UPS Stores, and Fedex with Kinko's/Fedex outlets.
Corporate policy at both CONTRACT CARRIERS prohibits UPS STORES and Fedex OUTLETS from accepting firearms for shipments.
That means NO guns accepted at a strip mall UPS STORE or a Kinko's that also runs a side Fedex service on their premises.
Both carriers require firearms be accepted at, and shipped from, terminals or hubs.
UPS STORES and Kinko's sites are not owned by UPS or Fedex, and have different shipping rules.
You may occasionally find a clerk at either a UPS store or a Kinko's/Fedex site that will accept guns for shipping, if they do they violate policies out of ignorance.
You DO advise counter personnel at a UPS HUB and a Fedex TERMINAL that you are shipping a firearm.
You are NOT required to notify a postal clerk it's a gun. They'll typically ask no more than if the package contains anything hazardous (or similar wording), and don't require you to disclose if it's a firearm or not.
Olin,
Your posts contained material advising people to "...lie your ass off."
You posted erroneous info regarding US Postal shipping regulations.
I did no character assasination.
Denis
Denis. I am sorry I did not know that you could not have a sense of humor while posting here. There is a tv show called dance your ass off.
I think it is meant to be humor. I did not know I was dealing with mentally challenged folks here who had no sense of humor and could not differentciate between an attempt at humor and the tootsie rolls in their diapers.
Why the ax grinding Denis? If someone lied their ass off based on some guy saying do that on a post that is posted in a humorous manner. That individual probably isn't allowed to own guns in the first place. And besides that particular comment was aimed at dealing with smith and wesson who are not keeping up their end of the recall guidelines. It was never suggested to lie your ass off when dealing with mailing firearms, so at least get your accusations correct before you lambast me in a public forum.
I didn't post false information. Are you walking in my shoes did you interact with the people I interacted with to get the answers I received?
What are you a federal atf law judge that you have every single little state and local and federal law memorized in your brain.
I told you what I would do but that don't seem good enough for you so no point in interacting with you anymore.
for the rest - I called the postal guy (yes hes off on saturdays and I called my ffl but someone else is minding the shop so the ffl can watch his kid play football - he will be back this afternoon).
the plot thickens....
oh no mister bill.....................
I think it is meant to be humor. I did not know I was dealing with mentally challenged folks here who had no sense of humor and could not differentciate between an attempt at humor and the tootsie rolls in their diapers.
Why the ax grinding Denis? If someone lied their ass off based on some guy saying do that on a post that is posted in a humorous manner. That individual probably isn't allowed to own guns in the first place. And besides that particular comment was aimed at dealing with smith and wesson who are not keeping up their end of the recall guidelines. It was never suggested to lie your ass off when dealing with mailing firearms, so at least get your accusations correct before you lambast me in a public forum.
I didn't post false information. Are you walking in my shoes did you interact with the people I interacted with to get the answers I received?
What are you a federal atf law judge that you have every single little state and local and federal law memorized in your brain.
I told you what I would do but that don't seem good enough for you so no point in interacting with you anymore.
for the rest - I called the postal guy (yes hes off on saturdays and I called my ffl but someone else is minding the shop so the ffl can watch his kid play football - he will be back this afternoon).
the plot thickens....
oh no mister bill.....................
Good grief, enough of this!
Opinions are just like belly buttons, everybody has one. Postal clerks need facts, not opinions, but nonetheless many have an opinion that cannot be support by fact. Why not go to the Post Office, find the Postmaster or whoever is in charge, have him get out the book and read to you the regulations on shipping a firearm?
Here's one of my shipping experiences (factual): FedEX will accept an assembled handgun from a non-licensee, they will know what 's in the box, they will not mark the box (at least at the shipping counter) and they will ship it next day air. I have had the unfortunate need to ship several handguns back to Smith over the past three years, every return label came to me by email, they all provided prepaid shipping both ways, and every shipment to and from involved no drama of any kind.
Hopefully if there is any interest left in this thread it will be about the L-frame repair.
Opinions are just like belly buttons, everybody has one. Postal clerks need facts, not opinions, but nonetheless many have an opinion that cannot be support by fact. Why not go to the Post Office, find the Postmaster or whoever is in charge, have him get out the book and read to you the regulations on shipping a firearm?
Here's one of my shipping experiences (factual): FedEX will accept an assembled handgun from a non-licensee, they will know what 's in the box, they will not mark the box (at least at the shipping counter) and they will ship it next day air. I have had the unfortunate need to ship several handguns back to Smith over the past three years, every return label came to me by email, they all provided prepaid shipping both ways, and every shipment to and from involved no drama of any kind.
Hopefully if there is any interest left in this thread it will be about the L-frame repair.
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toasted
Member
My nickels worth (due to inflation)
Here is a link to the shipping information page at GunBroker.
GunBroker.com - Help Center
It cites the ATF regs. Hope some may find this useful.
Here is a link to the shipping information page at GunBroker.
GunBroker.com - Help Center
It cites the ATF regs. Hope some may find this useful.
I have as much of a sense of humor as the next person, perhaps even more as many people at work consider me demented in my tastes in humor, and I didn't see how your post was "humorous".
So how does one go about interpreting something that simply says "the best bet is to lie your ass off" as humor when all there is to go on is what is shown written in black and white?
Talking to someone in person and being able to see a facial expression or hear the inflection in a voice would probably clue most people in when something is being said tongue and cheek, but when the communication vehicle is only the written word, and all that there is to go on, I think you're being a bit unreasonable in your expectations of people reading your post, being able to detect the humor.
You are correct Olin, we don't know you, and with only 19 posts to this forum that isn't enough interaction to be able to readily recognize your "humorous" writing style to take it at face value.
The topic of shipping firearms is not a humorous subject, the ramifications of doing so illegally, either knowingly or unknowingly are too severe to be joked about. Permanently losing your right to possess a firearm, monetary loss from legal costs defending yourself or paying a fine, plus the possibility of jail time... oh yeah, those are all funny ha-ha's in my book.
If you want to justify your comments by saying " I did not know I was dealing with mentally challenged folks here who had no sense of humor and could not differentiate between an attempt at humor and the tootsie rolls in their diapers", then do us all a favor, go find another forum where your "sense of humor" will receive the proper amount of attention that it richly deserves.
Oh... that was a joke by the way, now you'll have to excuse me, it's time for me to go harvest the tootsie rolls from my diaper... the stench is becomng unbearable.
So how does one go about interpreting something that simply says "the best bet is to lie your ass off" as humor when all there is to go on is what is shown written in black and white?
Talking to someone in person and being able to see a facial expression or hear the inflection in a voice would probably clue most people in when something is being said tongue and cheek, but when the communication vehicle is only the written word, and all that there is to go on, I think you're being a bit unreasonable in your expectations of people reading your post, being able to detect the humor.
You are correct Olin, we don't know you, and with only 19 posts to this forum that isn't enough interaction to be able to readily recognize your "humorous" writing style to take it at face value.
The topic of shipping firearms is not a humorous subject, the ramifications of doing so illegally, either knowingly or unknowingly are too severe to be joked about. Permanently losing your right to possess a firearm, monetary loss from legal costs defending yourself or paying a fine, plus the possibility of jail time... oh yeah, those are all funny ha-ha's in my book.
If you want to justify your comments by saying " I did not know I was dealing with mentally challenged folks here who had no sense of humor and could not differentiate between an attempt at humor and the tootsie rolls in their diapers", then do us all a favor, go find another forum where your "sense of humor" will receive the proper amount of attention that it richly deserves.
Oh... that was a joke by the way, now you'll have to excuse me, it's time for me to go harvest the tootsie rolls from my diaper... the stench is becomng unbearable.
The Smith and Wesson shipping label for the 586 arrived today.
so "thanks" to the poster who gave me reason to call back. I asked to speak to someone in the service department and at first they deflected but eventually agreed. And he was good on his word.
The 1968 gun control act set forth provisions or exceptions for manufacturers and recalls and broken equipment to be returned to them, via the postal service prior to fedex and ups becoming
big companies. Some people both ffl and post office are aware that this agreement is still on the books somewhere. But it has mostly gone to ground lost in things like this
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/46hard.pdf
http://www.savedbyagun.com/files/gca68.pdf
from what I have read. The ATF like the IRS have the final say and I would not want to chance it. Therefore I would send by
UPS and spend the extra money just for piece of mind.
And finally I am not dense. No need to tell me to move on. But defining a person by post count is kind of cheezy.
so "thanks" to the poster who gave me reason to call back. I asked to speak to someone in the service department and at first they deflected but eventually agreed. And he was good on his word.
The 1968 gun control act set forth provisions or exceptions for manufacturers and recalls and broken equipment to be returned to them, via the postal service prior to fedex and ups becoming
big companies. Some people both ffl and post office are aware that this agreement is still on the books somewhere. But it has mostly gone to ground lost in things like this
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/46hard.pdf
http://www.savedbyagun.com/files/gca68.pdf
from what I have read. The ATF like the IRS have the final say and I would not want to chance it. Therefore I would send by
UPS and spend the extra money just for piece of mind.
And finally I am not dense. No need to tell me to move on. But defining a person by post count is kind of cheezy.
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Perhaps this will help end all of the guessing (copied from the USPS website):
12.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 12.1.3 and 12.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 12.1.4 and 12.1.6.
12.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 12.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:
a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e.
12.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 12.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 12.1.3a. through 12.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:
a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e, Authorized Persons.
12.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.
12.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 12.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.
12.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6 if:
a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or
b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 12.1.3a. through 12.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.
12.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6.
The truth will set you free
12.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 12.1.3 and 12.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 12.1.4 and 12.1.6.
12.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 12.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:
a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e.
12.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 12.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 12.1.3a. through 12.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:
a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e, Authorized Persons.
12.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.
12.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 12.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.
12.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6 if:
a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or
b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 12.1.3a. through 12.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.
12.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6.
The truth will set you free
The antique firearms clause is also expanded to include replicas, as previously mentioned, and the definor there is that they can't accept or fire "fixed" ammunition.
I've chased that one down with their higher echelons & mailed more than one replica percussion revolver over the years.
Denis
I've chased that one down with their higher echelons & mailed more than one replica percussion revolver over the years.
Denis
CQB27
US Veteran
olin,
I enjoy your sense of humor and writing style. Keep on posting so I can enjoy the reading! There are a few on this site who enjoy judging others without any sense of who you really are. You may be "the most interesting man in the world" or an "axe murderer", no way to tell from a few posts on an internet board. It is easy to be an internet tuff guy. Just take them for what they are, not much, and drive on. Welcome to the sight and thanks for the entertainment!
Armyphotog
Member
What some of you are saying seems bizarre. Not doubting you, or anything like that, but I just sent my 586 back to S&W with their blessing to have the recall work done. No problem. Perhaps you should call back and get a different representative. If they issued a recall, I don't see how they can pick and choose which guns to repair. And, by the way, my gun is "Pristine". I thought the idea in a recall was to keep you from having a problem, not wait until one presents itself. Try again.
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