So the story goes about the 586 no dash

[olin]

I have read many accounts about how if it was not stamped with an M that you could contact smith and wesson and they would send you a shipping label and pay postage both ways..

Well unless someone has a name of someone at the service center who will come to the rescue we can put that information
to rest.

For you see boys and girls I recently got a nice 586 no dash and no M. And since everybody on all forums has always said free free shipping for the "recall" I did not even think about not buying.

I should have thought about it twice, I should have thought about it twice.

Because first by email and then by phone call I found out that "gee that recall is so old we don't pay for postage to us anymore." But if you get it to us we will M it. lol lol ---

Okay - disappointment will be my epitaph. Everybody knows that's just how it goes.

The next fun thing was trying to find a United States Post Office employee who understood the federal regulations regarding shipping by mail to the manufacturer for a recall situation as long as the gun is taken down and will not fire. I was lucky and found a guy after four calls who knows the laws. I only have to go with box so he can see the gun with the cylinder off and he will gladly send it priority mail..

When I asked the smith "employee about a new nickle extractor rod he told me it was eight bucks plus 30 dollars labor -- which is pretty funny because the extractor rod of course will already be off the gun when they receive it.

I am going to place a note in the box that I want a new extractor rod and include eight bucks and tell them to send the gun back
with the old extractor rod. I would not anyone to break a sweat pulling apart the plastic bag the new extractor rod comes in.

I just hope I don't get a phone call saying they are charging me ten bucks more because somebody had to walk over to another building were they keep the stash of nickel extractor rods and bring it to the smith to put in the return box with the put together gun with the old extractor rod.

all in good fun - all in good fun. The one good thing I can say is
my email was answered very quickly and when I called I was talking to someone within moments.

the gun is no safe queen but of course its history is a mystery.
Did someone only shoot 38 specials. I might not be frothing to fire full load 357's all the time but I certainly do not want to have a gun that "might" have an accidental discharge at some point in time if a round does not go boom when the primer is hit.

I just wanted to pass along the information about shipping so people can start saying "they use to ship those 586 no dashes for free but dang you know that was so long ago who can expect them to honor a recall so old."

thank you
olin

disclaimer: this is in no way a slam on smith and wesson in general. this is merely an educational tuitorial.

 

[-db-]

Thanks for the info. I'm waiting for a reply to an email about the same thing.

 

[Dobbs]

My no-dash 586 received the repair just two months ago. Smith paid for the express shipping both ways.

 

[kennyb]

the previous owner(s)did not send it back for the recall...and now thirty years later S&W wants you to pay shipping and they still fix it for free...thats 30 years later!somehow to me that doesn't sound so bad....i suspect if you were to call another rep.you would receive a free shipping label as everyone that i'm aware of has but then....i guess they would still want eight bucks for the darn extractor rod....

 

[Grog]

The next fun thing was trying to find a United States Post Office employee who understood the federal regulations regarding shipping by mail to the manufacturer for a recall situation as long as the gun is taken down and will not fire. I was lucky and found a guy after four calls who knows the laws. I only have to go with box so he can see the gun with the cylinder off and he will gladly send it priority mail..

Would you care to post the link/text of that? The frame is a gun, no matter what and non-licenses are not allowed to ship a handgun through the USPS.

 

[olin]

dobbs, my long lost best buddy - how you been? hows the wife and little sammy? - hey could you give me some names of who you dealt with. I am going to recall (get it) smith and wesson right now and go fishing again - maybe get some happy disgruntled worker that loves to help the customer. (okay dobbs going by what you said I recalled and - see below)

grog - post a link? surely you jest - do you think I want to blow my cylinder (get it) looking for a few sentences in the never ending maze of regulations and federal diatribe? Its something I read some where and I followed up with it and my ffl knew about it - he said the problem was no mailman would touch it - because they don't get paid for reading small lines and just a blanket "no" is much easier.

and the other poster who said its still a deal to get it fixed after 30 years is correct. and I agree.

dobbs - I will dance at your next wedding - being armed with your information I just called smith and wesson while typing this and did not stop at the front desk but asked to speak to a service department person - short wait - then I got a guy and pleaded my case that I was told one thing last week but a guy on a forum said he just got free shipping two weeks ago and I don't know what to post on forums regarding the situation - and he heed and hawd - and finally after some rope a dope - he said he guessed he could send me a label for shipping both ways.

so I guess you have to be like a ninja ready to spring when your trying to get this done. apparently they have been told to deflect as much as possible but in the end do it if the customer insists.

I didn't insist I just acted befuddled and confused (well I wasn't really acting thats my usual state) - and he must have felt pity
so they are sending a label - and I am now standing corrected - that you can indeed still receive free shipping on the 586 no dash - if you keep applying yourself. sorry guys for giving wrong information but it was my experience and thats why you post things to learn from others.

ya theres still that darn extractor rod - but at least I don't have to pay the 100 dollars shipping for the eight dollar part. (thats a joke guys) -- but not really..


its the small things in life that make you have a good day.

grog - if your really information seeking you could probably call some FFL's until you find one that knows about this. That being said and you get a hold of blowfish only in it for the buck - you can email me and I will send you my FFL's number and you can call him yourself and ask - this offer is for grog only and I would hope grog keeps the number under his hat. I would like to stay friends with my ffl. thank you.

thank you
olin

 

[Nframe357]

I've got 2 no M L frames and both run great, wouldn't waste the time sending them back personally.

 

[Grog]

Sad to say, but there are many FFls who do not know every law about being an FFL, let alone the USPS.

A FFL (not sure about a C&R) can ship a handgun, but I have never seen anywhere that a non-license could.

Once, I had to point out in their big book of rules (the postmaster gave it to me since I had the sub-section printed already) to the USPS how I could ship two stripped AR lowers, but they were still firearms and had to be shipped as such.

 

[d625]

Shipping a handgun

A non-licensee can ship to S & W without involving a license holder. Shipping instructions will come in the email from Smith which includes the shipping label. Basically you package it, affix the provided label, take it to Fed Ex (not UPS or USPS) and they will ship it next day air, freight collect. I have needed to do this a few times over the past year (that's another story), and that process is painless.

I did have a USPS encounter a few years back about disassembling a firearm before you ship it. I am assuming that there have been no changes to USPS or ATF rules since then.

At that time, I was a licensee. I showed up at the local Post Office with the packaged handgun and the necessary form filled out. After having shipped several handguns via USPS, two different clerks now told me the gun needed to be unloaded and disassembled. When I said that disassembly was not necessary, the answer was "well, those are the rules."

I asked them to show me that regulation in print. They did get the "bible", located the section on shipping firearms, handed me the book and said "it tells you right here how to ship a gun." Of course it said nothing about disassembly, and when I pointed that out they called a supervisor to the counter and asked him. Naturally he knew the answer without looking in a book. The answer was "No"

 

[Harrison]

About 6 weeks ago I called S&W about sending in a 581 no dash, no M, for the modification. The Rep. asked me how it worked. I said fine. I was told by the S&W representative that as long as the cylinder and hammer were not sticking, not to send it back. He explained that very few guns had a problem, and if the gun did have a problem you would know about it in the first 100 rounds. Since then I have put a couple more hundred rounds through the gun, some of them hot loads. It still works fine. It ain't broke so I am not going to fix it. S&W sure was not interested in getting it back.

 

[Moondancer]

I bought a 686 no-dash when they were first released. (I actually ordered it prior to them being released for sale.) I had the gun until 2003 when I needed some more cash. Many, many rounds went through it, both .38 Special and .357 Magnums and I never had any problems of any kind with it.
I'm looking to replace it and I will NOT worry if I find one without the M mark.

 

[Slacker]

I've been shooting my 586 no dash in bowling pin matches, IDPA and steel matches for years and I've never had any problems with it. Literally, easily 50 rounds a week for years.
Normally 357 mag, sometimes 38's. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The recall was just for a binding cylinder for high primers anyway.

Actual text of the recall:
"SMITH & WESSON
MODEL 581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1,
586-1, 681-1, 686-1 & 686CS-1, REVOLVERS

RECALL: Reports have been received from the field where the combination of a SMITH & WESSON L-FRAME 357 MAGNUM REVOLVER and some .357 Magnum ammunition has resulted in unacceptable cylinder binding. L-frame revolvers bearing model numbers:

581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1, 586-1,
681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1

Cylinder binding can cause a failure to fire. Mishandling a revolver while freeing the cylinder can result in accidental discharge.

Cylinder binding can result from a number of causes, including characteristics of an individual revolver or the use of ammunition, which does not conform to industry pressure specifications or is particularly fast burning. Recent developments in ammunition manufacture emphasize the production of .357 Magnum ammunition with increased velocity and greater primer sensitivity.

Although there have been very few reported incidents of cylinder binding, in view of our concern for our customer's safety and the reliability of Smith & Wesson products in all circumstances, we issue the following warning:

In a situation where a failure to fire can be critical - such as law enforcement or personal protection - do not use .357 Magnum ammunition with an L-frame revolver bearing model numbers 581, 586, 681, 686 or 581-1, 586-1, 681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1 without an "M" over the model number until you have had the revolver modified.

Those who need to use their L-frame revolver under these conditions prior to modification can safely fire .38 Special caliber ammunition.

Smith & Wesson has developed a modification to improve existing L-frame revolvers. This improvement enables them to fire all .357 Magnum ammunition, without cylinder binding. Shipments of L-frame revolvers from our factory after August 21, 1987 already include this improvement.

You can check if your revolver includes this improvement by looking at the left side of the frame when the cylinder is fully open. If your revolver has been stamped either with a "2" or higher number after the basic three-digit model number or with an "M" above the model number, your revolver includes this improvement and does not need modification. If your revolver bears the model number 581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1, 586-1, 681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1 without an "M" over the model number, it does not include this improvement and your should have your revolver modified.

Smith & Wesson will modify your L-frame revolver free of charge to eliminate the possibility of cylinder binding with .357 Magnum ammunition. Law enforcement agencies wishing to arrange for modification of L-frame revolvers should call 800-458-8469 between 9 A.M. and 6 P.M. Eastern time (MA residents call 413-734-8244). Other users should send their revolvers to a Smith & Wesson Warranty Service Center, specifying "L-frame improvement program" and enclosing their name and return address.

One of the modifications to improve the L-frame revolver is the installation of a new hammer nose. This obsoletes all old L-frame hammer noses (part numbers 4702 and 7513) and all old L-frame hammer assemblies (part numbers 3366, 3378, 3380, 3382, 3391, 4722, 4723, 4726 and 4728) in field parts inventories. Superseded parts should never be fitted into a modified revolver as this may result in malfunction. It is essential for safety that you return these obsolete L-frame hammer noses and obsolete L-frame hammer assemblies for a free exchange to:

Smith & Wesson
Service Department
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01101

Do not return L-frame hammer-nose bushings from your spare parts inventory inasmuch as they are useable in J, N and K-frame revolvers, which are not included in this Product Warning.

We regret any inconvenience this may cause. Smith & Wesson's first concern is the safety of its products and the protection of its customers.

Source:

Shotgun News November 1, 1989; page ?

Guns & Ammo, December 1987; page 6"

 

[-db-]

Well, olin and others are right. It would appear that S&W is no longer offering to provide a shipping label for the "M" fix. My email and the brief reply I got today:

To whom it may concern-

I recently purchased a used 686-1 revolver, serial number AWT51XX, that does not feature the "M" stamp at the yoke area, indicating it has not been modified via the L-frame recall. I would appreciate any information regarding getting the revolver properly serviced with this update. Thank you.

send the gun in to

Service dept

2100 roosevelt ave

Springfield ma 01104

That's it. No instructions, no label, etc. Shipping is apparently on the customer's dime now.

 

[BUFF]

My second L frame was a NIB Model 686 with an AEJxxxx serial number. It had the cylinder lock-up problem. It wouldn't do it with every cartridge loading I tried but did do it with at least 3 variants that I remember.

That -686 never locked-up until it locked-up, either. I had shot it a bit before the first occurence and was pretty surprised when it did. I thought it was just a bad lot of ammo until it did it again with something else in it. This was before S&W discovered the cause of the problem; they first were sort of blaming it on the ammunition companies.

I have owned a number of other early .357 Mag L frames, and they have been just fine. So far.

If I owned an L frame that I used for self defense, I would have the recall done. If I just used it for sporting purposes, I wouldn't worry about it until the problem occurred with that gun, if ever.

Remember, Murphy was an optimist and considerably understated the problem, that if it CAN go wrong, it WILL go wrong, at the worst possible moment.

 

[olin]

ya I finally got them to say they would send me a shipping label about three days ago or four. Nothing has arrived so far.. Maybe there first strad is to blow you off and then when you insist their second strad is to say okay then blow you off. if I actually do get a label I will post it gleefully.


*Notice - do not let small children read this.

the best bet is to lie your ass off. Tell them your in wheel chair and you only pleasure in life is shooting your gun, since your other one does not work since the "accident".. listen they do this with us all the time. Showing us those pictures of the little six month old kids that are already pregnant. The company is probably in dire straits. Look at what their stocks are doing. This time last year they had a day high of 5.42 a share - today it is at 3.75 right now.. so if your going to get any milage do it fast before they lose even more money. the saying no is just cost cutting stuff to make more bucks so the share holders will be happy. Unfortunately the pontiff effect has worn off and people are not buying like they was when they thought the laws would change. So there is a glut. And Iraq is winding down so what ever military contracts were bringing in cash are ending also. So ya don't email them, come on be man and call them up and cry
make them feel sorry for you. then they will say they are sending you a label and then blow you off... lol - its just so damn priceless...

 

[Dpris]

It requires an FFL to MAIL a handgun (assembled or not) via the PO.
It does not require an FFL to SHIP a handgun (assembled or not) via UPS or Fedex.
The PO will defer to the ATF definition of a firearm, which is the serialized frame or receiver.

S&W will NOT send you a shipping label for the PO for that reason.
The ones they send me are typically UPS.

An FFL holder can mail a handgun via the PO, the average guy or gal can't.
A non-holder can mail a long gun (rifle or shotgun) via the PO.
A non-holder can ship any of the three via UPS or Fedex.

UPS stores are not allowed by UPS to knowingly accept firearms for shipping.
FEDEX outlets such as Kinkos, ditto.

Denis

 

[olin]

Again, I am saying that the law is open to interpretation and in my case, if I do not receive a shipping label from smith and wesson I have a united states postal employee that understands the letter of the law not the spirit of the law. He will ship my 586 to smith and wesson as long as I show up with it with the extractor rod off and cylinder off. He said nothing about seperate boxes. Once he sees it in this condition and that it is addressed to smith and wesson with a note concerning the recall and the L Frame Improvement Program he will help me pack it and then send it priority mail. While I can appreciate the fact that there is a blanket no way and no united states postal worker wants to send a gun. The law apparently allows for exceptions if a worker has taken the time to read and knows the law. As pointed out by a previous poster most ffl's do not even know this. And what do people usually do that do not know? They argue the point. Because in their minds they KNOW and that's just how it goes. I called three different mail people before I found the guy who will ship for me - they all said no - one of them even read me some junk about ancient guns being allowable but thats it buster. (might have been my dad) - I am sorry there are those that think I am talking out my hat. But I will not give it much thought when (if smith and wesson does not come through with a shipping label) I am at the post office sending my 586 in a non working state to smith and wesson to get the M stamp. Now then, since I am a fairly confident and secure individual that does at times get slammed dunked - if I go to the post office on that day - and I cannot find the guy I talked to - I will leave. I am not dumb enough to start a "well so and so said" -- I will just wait until that guy I had the conversation with is there. No brainer - and if he says to me "oh I thought you were talking about something else" I will tell you all here that I was wrong.. But I don't think thats going to happen because my ffl knew about this too - and indeed has had other customers ship to factorys for recalls and fixing when something breaks under warranty. I guess the laws might be a little different here in New Caledonia than they are in the united states.. ------------------------ relax that was a joke.

Now time for a whole bunch of people to post never never never it can't happen.. but guys I am telling you it will happen. Unless the shipping label gets here. Then I don't have to go to the post office and spend MY money.

thank you
olin

all I can say is find yourself an ffl that knows the letter of the law and he will usually know someone at the post office that knows the letter of the law. In the meantime your mostly gonna run across workers who live by the spirit of the law. Notice the difference in wording. They get it in their head that this is what the regulations mean and by god it would take the almighty post master general of everything to tell them otherwise. I don't have time to battle with them nor do they have the ability to accept something that another would be postulating on. my god I can't even get you guys on board that this is a reality. Well a few did post above and seem to understand what the law actually is regarding the subject. Just because you have always heard that something is the fact jack - does not make it so. Those of us old enough grew up in school systems that taught us all kinds of glimmering bull neon glowing spruced up dung.

I as in individual rest my case. my intent to begin with was to help others learn something new. Not to defend myself against the killer bees.. lol

all in fun folks
all in fun - if you see my name on a post you can pretty much figure theres going to be some fun involved since nothing in life is all that serious to me - except one thing. never tell me my dog looks like a beagle.

 

[Dpris]

No, Olin, it is not subject to interpretation, and if your postal employee mails a handgun for you he will be violating his own postal regulations.

You didn't keep trying till you found one who "knows" the rules, you kept going till you found one who doesn't.
You CAN mail antiques & replicas that don't accept "fixed ammunition" by their regs, you can't mail a cartridge-firing modern revolver design without violating them.

In 20 years of shipping and mailing guns of all types back to their makers, I've had to educate postal employees and have them haul out their own books more than once.

There is nothing in them that requires a cartridge-firing gun be disassembled or indicates it's mailable if it is.

You're not helping anybody out here by posting bad info.

You MAY find a PO clerk who'll accept your gun in ignorance.
You MAY find a UPS STORE employee who'll accept your gun in ignorance.
You MAY find a Fedex/Kinko's outlet employee who'll accept your gun out of ignorance.

You also MAY find yourself spit-outa-luck if they lose that gun as far as any insurance claims go if your shipping doesn't conform with their regs & policies.
You also MAY find a postal inspector knocking on your door at some point.

Your posts indicate you think it's cool & funny to lie & use fraudulent methods to achieve your goals.
Most of the rest of us don't, and most of the rest of us prefer not to risk any bouncebacks that can affect our rights of gun ownership down the road.

Denis

 

[stevieboy]

I've never shipped via USPS but I have shipped several times via UPS. UPS does not require that a handgun be disassembled in order to ship. You do have to take it to one of their shipping centers, the local UPS stores will not handle it for you.

 

[olin]

Denis your post was going so well until you did that character assassination thing there at the end. Hey did you ever notice that the word assassination has two ass'es in it?

Now then cool and funny?

come on guy you don't know me. if you did you would know my policeman brother in law received an exceptional duty award and a life saving award last year in a city of 250,000 people. I am pretty law abiding. And my ffl is pretty tight with the police department here.

anyway now that you have short bio on me

lets address this issue in a more adult like manner. perhaps Denis you are right about everything. Now that's funny and cool.
I am admitting that to you. I have no reason to think your giving me false information and everything I myself have read seems to indicate your correct..

short story: a couple commited suicide in wyoming somewhere but before they did they tipped over all their tanks of poisonous snakes.. The town was small and people knew they had these snakes. About 12 or so as memory serves. Anyway the police could see the tanks turned over and of course no one would go in. They were wondering what to do. Then a truck driver showed up he heard somebody on a cb talking about it. He volunteered to go in and catch all the snakes. And they let him but not before they had called reptile gardens in Rapid City South Dakota to confirm that the trucker also had a permit to handle all dangerous and poisonous snakes and had worked at reptile gardens for many years prior to becoming a truck driver.
So he went in and bag and tagged all the snakes so that someone from reptile gardens could come get them - told the cops thanks it was fun and on his way he went..

why did I tell you this story? For all we know at this point in time the mail person might have an ffl license. Certainly a possibility.

But in all reality I think your concerns for giving false information are well grounded and I will take the time on monday to call the post office and talk to my guy and find out just what the provisions are in allowing him to ship a gun to smith and wesson when no one else seems to want to agree that he can do it. I have to wait till monday because this post office where he works is just a shipping and receiving branch. So I don't think they are open tomorrow and all the other ones close at noon anyway.

But I joke with you. And I will find an answer to give you and all the others that are following this thread because I am now curious myself. My ffl will be open tomorrow and I will call him and ask more deeper questions and perhaps there will be an answer tomorrow. I in no way intended to cause anyone grief or mislead - as I stated earlier in regards to smith and wesson not wanting to give me a free ship - and then finding out they said they would I stated that as it was happening to me - my experience. But as you can see other posters are running into the same initial problem of smith not wanting to anti up on their recall because it just so darn long ago.. So - I can only be as good in my reporting and posting what is happening to me. If I am told differently I certainly will follow through and get to the bottom of things.

I am sorry if you think I am a cool fool who laughs at the law and
cuts in line in front of old women..


Denis - when you don't know someone - and your frustrated with them - have some patience you might find they are willing to work with you to resolve the frustration. We don't have to drink beer on the white house lawn or anything but we can at least try to fix any damage that has been done.

So check back and I will tell you what I am told.

If any of what I have been told is some kind of under the table biz - I don't want no part of that. My 586 is very shiny and I do not want it confiscated or stolen.. And also when I call smith and wesson again to ask about the label they are suppose to be sending I will ask them if they will even accept a handgun sent by usps..

So even if you gave me a good one across the chops - no foul
because you might have saved me a gun if something is not right about this.

However if there is some claus some properness about this not generally known that would be a good thing for people to know.

Denis its all I can do is ask and pass on what they tell me.

okay?

thanks
olin