So what's the hit by the critics on newer S&W revolvers?

C

CSG

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
81
Reaction score
24
Location
Out West
I'm sure it's been discussed a lot but I'm not sure what search terms to use. I've only got 3 S&W revolvers of which the newest is from 1993 (442). Got a couple 28-2's as well.

I have read plenty about the IL and MIM parts but while the first is something I don't like the idea of, I'm not sure I'm terribly concerned about the MIM internal parts.

What are the other issues? I ask because I'd like to find a fresh 442/642 and I understand they make this model without the IL. As these can be abused more easily than the all steel guns I'm a bit hesitant to look for a used one.

Thanks for any insight.
 
Register to hide this ad
I do not have one of the new 442s but I do have a 340PD, which has similar parts. So far, it has been trouble-free. I wouldn't be too worried about buying a new S&W. Some of the small-frame guns have suffered aesthetically in my opinion, but the hammerless models have avoided that problem.
 
The no lock models are tough to find but are out there. I would not hesitate to own a new S&W. They're not nearly as pretty as the classics but will work just as well.

The current guns trade hand fitting for closer production tolerances. That doesn't sit well with many, but to me it's the end result that matters. I intend to shoot mine often, not stare at them.
 
I don't know if anyone here on the forum has ever ran a "pole" on broken MIM components, but they have IL issues. I have not heard or read much at all concerning hammer/trigger failures. I only have one Smith with MIM parts in it and it's little-fired (the wife's 317). I would think that if MIM components are good enough for a Jet Engine, they should be good enough for a gun. I just won't own one with a lock, so I don't own many with MIM components. A NL with MIM parts would not bother me though.
 
MIM parts

Regarding MIM ( metal injection molding) parts; there is lots of research on line, and professional gunsmiths on this forum, please chime in. The facts: >MIM parts are more economical to produce the either forged or cast >MIM parts or more durable than either forged or cast >MIM parts are dimensionally and geometrically much more precise than either forged or cast parts >MIM parts are being used by nearly all of the worlds leading small arms producers in their weapons. So please do your own research, and you'll sleep well.:):)
 
You can find no-lock 442/642 models, both used and new.

MIM do not bother me, but I cannot own a S&W WITH internal lock....unless it is for range use only.....
 
Newer Smiths

I own 4 all bought in the last 2 years. A 3" and 5" 686, a 438 Airweight, and a model 67PC .38 (1 of 500 made). Between all 4 i probably have 5000 rounds thru them.
I have owned dozens of Smith revolvers over the last 20 years, and these shoot as good as any revolver i have ever owned. The PC model is the sweetest shooting .38 you will ever put your hands on. If i ever saw another one in decent shape I would snap it up.
 
For me, if for aesthetic reasons only, I couldn't bring myself to by an IL equipped revolver.

I read an essay from Chuck Hawks last night and his big beef seems to be mostly political. I do recall the fiasco that they were involved with back in the Clinton years but there was little internet in those days other than sites like Prodigy. I do remember people swearing they'd never buy another S&W though. I wonder if those folks kept their vow?

Personally, I'd rather buy used if there's a savings but the newer S&W's I've looked at seemed well built, by and large. But I will not buy one with those infernal locks.
 
MIM is like a lot of other things. Done well, it is darned good. Done poorly, it sucks. The lock? No way. Period.
 
CSG said:
I'm sure it's been discussed a lot but I'm not sure what search terms to use. I've only got 3 S&W revolvers of which the newest is from 1993 (442). Got a couple 28-2's as well.

I have read plenty about the IL and MIM parts but while the first is something I don't like the idea of, I'm not sure I'm terribly concerned about the MIM internal parts.

What are the other issues? I ask because I'd like to find a fresh 442/642 and I understand they make this model without the IL. As these can be abused more easily than the all steel guns I'm a bit hesitant to look for a used one.

Thanks for any insight.
Click to expand...

I have no issue with the new gun, with the exception that if it is for defense, the IL gets removed - all of it, and I just leave the hole.

The only other issue I have is that I have a list of stuff I wish they would make, and they never seem to get around to it in the Classic Line.

Those would include:

3 inch round butt Model 10
3 inch round butt Model 19 (OK if they make it in 38 Special)
5 inch Model 14 or 15

I could think of more, but I don't want to hijack the thread.
 
Given the frequency of cracked frames I would be hesitant to buy any of the aluminum J's used. I would buy a new one for the sake of the lifetime warrantee. I would not however but one with the Lawyer Lock, Ignition Key.
 
I'll be buying a 627-5 8 shot snub as soon as I can find one, MIM and IL notwithstanding. I'm not paying $1500- 2000 MORE just for one without an IL. "The plug" will take care of the hole. It will be my only one with the IL.
 
I own four new S&W' s with the loc I purchased for $499/$599. All work flawlessly so don't purchase them and let me have them all at that price. When they discontinue the locs you will pay dearly for the loc s&w to collect them as they become collectable and more rare. Placing the loc saves one child's life it served it's purpose. Your guns should be properly stored anyway when you have children in the house. Please be safe, bb
 
MIM and IL aside, I do keep seeing reports of new guns having to be returned to S&W for problems like canted barrels, etc. It begins to look as if while the new guns are quite good when they're right, more that are not right seem to get by the inspectors. I see the same complaints about Ruger guns, and lots of gripes about the quality of new Marlins since Remington bought the brand.

Sure, the Internet makes it easier to publicize problems, but they do seem more numerous to me.
 
BigBill said:
I own four new S&W' s with the loc I purchased for $499/$599. All work flawlessly so don't purchase them and let me have them all at that price. When they discontinue the locs you will pay dearly for the loc s&w to collect them as they become collectable and more rare. Placing the loc saves one child's life it served it's purpose. Your guns should be properly stored anyway when you have children in the house. Please be safe, bb
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone ever turns the lock on so its questionable if it has saved anyones life. MAYBE if the gun was stolen it might get traded off or tossed in the river if the person could not get it to work.

The lock'ed models will be popular is S&W only sells smart guns someday...
 
MIMS

I don't recall anywhere close to the amt of issues with the older ones as the newer ones. as prev said likely worse quality control and less hands on work by less skilled employees. mims may be more precisely shaped and have closer tolerances, but I don't feel they are as strong. and no I am not in the industry or a metallurgist. I know I will never pay full boat NEW retail prices on a S&W ever again when the older (better imo) ones are out there for substantially less $ quite often.
 
I've seen people trash MIM parts on Smith's fairly regular, then they slip and you find out they have guns with MIM. I guess it's ok, THEN.;)
 
MIM=cheap and ugly. Only thing is you don't see any savings. Cracked frames,canted barrels,muzzle crowns that lool like hell cylinders that are stuck shut peeling finishes ok I'll stop. Yea S&W will repair it if you send it back but after dishing out $700.00 bucks for a new gun who wants to go thru that. All that being said I do owen a 340pd with the lock. No
problems yet. Nope they don't make them like they used too. Sorry guys not bashing just giving my take on it.
 
Practical said:
I doubt anyone ever turns the lock on so its questionable if it has saved anyones life....
Click to expand...

I use the lock. Any change is going to meet resistance, remember people objecting to seat belts and airbags? My mim and locked 63 is a very fine tool and a pleasure to shoot.
 
So far, there are no other issues being discussed in this thread. Just "they don't make them like they used to" and the criticism of the IL and MIM parts.

I'll tell you, right now, my biggest criticism is lack of availability (locally) of new or used S&W revolvers. Plenty of Charter Arms, Taurus, and Ruger and some more obscure S&W's in the big hunting calibers. But J frame snubs? Forget it. All I've seen is online and over MSRP for new and plain overpriced for used.
 
Could some one please direct me to an actual report of an IL failure. I don't want some one who said it failed. I would like to see a confirmed. I would also like to know what happens when it fails. I have never seen that eather. I'm guessing it locks by itself while firing and stays locked. In a do or die gun fight it locks and you die. I have never seen a report of that eather. I'm not being a smartzzz here, I really want to know. I don't post much so consider this a newbe question.
 
nachogrande said:
I don't recall anywhere close to the amt of issues with the older ones as the newer ones. QUOTE]

Me either.

But 25 years ago when I bought several of my S&W guns, you didn't have the Internet -- let alone shooting oriented forums.

I think part of the problem is back then we would never hear about a problem unless it happened with someone nearby that we knew.

Now days, when a problem occurs, it gets posted on the Internet and 100,000 people read about it and lots of people repeat the story on other Forums and pretty soon a single problem with one person's gun sounds like a major problem you hear about wherever you look.

I'm not too sure about the "good old days" concept.

Of the two centerfire S&W revolvers I bought back then, one was recalled several years later because of a jamming problem, and the other turned out to need an "endurance package" added in models after I bought mine.

So guns weren't perfect back then either.

I remember when I was a kid my grand dad would go on and on about how bad things were and how terrible the younger generation was.

Now, I'm the age he was then, and that's what I hear from my peers a lot of the time.

In my view, these are the good old days.

Dave
Click to expand...
 
IL'S

I think more problems arise from them working too well. you lock the gun, then can't find the key when you need it. I now own my 2nd IL and don't have the key for it, thank GOD. don't think I'll be buying another set of keys anytime soon. I got enough trouble keeping track of my car keys and need MORE keys like I need more remote controls in the house.
 
littleriver1 said:
Could some one please direct me to an actual report of an IL failure. I don't want some one who said it failed. I would like to see a confirmed. I would also like to know what happens when it fails. I have never seen that eather. I'm guessing it locks by itself while firing and stays locked. In a do or die gun fight it locks and you die. I have never seen a report of that eather. I'm not being a smartzzz here, I really want to know. I don't post much so consider this a newbe question.
Click to expand...
*
There used to be a huge sticky on the forum with page upon page of those, from members and other credible sources. Ayoob collected a lot of the reports because he has access to a lot of sources of information. When the forum changed software a few years ago, that string got lost. It's a shame, as it was a great resource. The failures as I have understood them to be are just as you hypothesize.

I would not be surprised to see this string get locked as most of these about the lock tend to go to hell in a handcart in a hurry, and there is a sticky about discussing it somewhere (at the top of at least a few of the sub-forums).

All of my guns are either ready for immediate use, or locked away empty/disabled. I don't have kids, and none come in the house, so I don't have to worry about that issue. If I did have to address that, the only workable answer is to wear one, and lock up the others. The lock serves no purpose that cannot be addressed by other more appropriate means. It potentially interferes with the life saving use of a critical tool. I recall a member of this forum, or maybe one of the few others I read, finding out after carrying one of his revolvers with a lock that he had been carrying it locked for days. No thanks.

QC in general: many manufacturers, of many things, do a horrid job of checking product before they send it. I have had a couple of higher end 1911s that simply did not work for reasons that should have been caught in pre-shipping inspections and testing. (This is stuff that was apparent in dry firing, on $2000 pistols. What a crock.) I have had cars had multiple flaws resulting in recalls and campaigns. I drove a first year Mack CH that was a complete disaster, with all sorts of stupid stuff wrong with it. I don't think that there is any question S&W has had some issues - folks report them here regularly. Some of them are utterly inexcusable. They are not unique, unfortunately.
 
Similar threads

I posted a thread on this about a week ago and answered to another one today. The general consensus was:

There's nothing wrong with MIM parts

The lock really doesn't affect anything


Us traditionalists don't like either, but that is just our own tastes. Somebody could just as soon say, "I don't want those double actions" or "I don't want removable firing pins" 'cause they ain't no good.
 
I don't like the looks of the lock , But I have other guns with them and have not had a problem, and MIM parts make no difference to me at all, My thing is, I don't have all the old Smiths I want yet!
 
CSG said:
I'm sure it's been discussed a lot but I'm not sure what search terms to use. I've only got 3 S&W revolvers of which the newest is from 1993 (442). Got a couple 28-2's as well.

I have read plenty about the IL and MIM parts but while the first is something I don't like the idea of, I'm not sure I'm terribly concerned about the MIM internal parts.

What are the other issues? I ask because I'd like to find a fresh 442/642 and I understand they make this model without the IL. As these can be abused more easily than the all steel guns I'm a bit hesitant to look for a used one.

Thanks for any insight.
Click to expand...

If inspected properly (cosmetically and mechanically) there are cost savings to be gained from buying used.

Many buy these little Airweights, shoot less than a box of ammo and place them strategically about for home defense.

Financial need, major life changes or perhaps sheer boredom may lead to the selling of a "LNIB" gun, sometimes at bargin prices.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Any idea what S&W revolver (or pistol?) this S&W holster goes to? B38 .45
Replies
5
Views
266
SG-688
S
Hawg Rider
My First Three S&W Revolvers
Replies
8
Views
650
lgeorge1
L
T
Rescued from the scrap pile- 38 S&W Victory with a twist
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Pathfinder36
P
P
S&W UC 32 H&R Magnum Light Strike with Lost River Ammo Only…anyone else?
Replies
9
Views
770
Riposte1
R
Old No7
Hammer Replacement Issue -- S&W Mdl 66-2
Replies
9
Views
1K
bobsguns
bobsguns

Latest posts

Back
Top