Only the local seismograph can prove that !
Solar panels
- Thread starter ACORN
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Only the local seismograph can prove that !
What chemicals are you referring to? Residential panels are largely silicon.
I'm genuinely curious.
toxic chemicals in solar panels include cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride.
I highly suggest you discuss this with your homeowners Ins agent. Also inquire who pays to have all the panels removed and reinstalled should you need to reroof (You do). Ask about the panel deterioration rate over time. People here in FL are losing their ins over them. Ask how long his company has been in the business. Many are very "short-term" here, making warranties worthless.
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GypsmJim
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From 2007-2011 I had a consulting contract with a CA company that made solar panels, among other products. They quit the solar bizness because they could not compete with China.
The irony was that some of the raw materials for their other product line was sourced from China, because US components were too expensive.
Can you say Generac?.........Cheaper.......Lots less ugly....And will run the whole house if needed.
LVSteve
Member
Every man and his dog has been putting up solar here. The lease deal seems very popular, and this state has been very aggressive with legislation encouraging their use. Why not? Some joker calculated that the area presently covered by the Nellis ranges and the Nuclear test site could easily power the entire US with a suitable distribution system. Not sure what happens at night, though. 
I have recently noted that there are two attachment systems, one spaces the panels off your roof so you need wire skirts to keep the pigeons out. Mind you, it does form a kind of fly sheet over the roof. The other system has the panels closely mounted to the roof tiles. Fixes the pigeon issue, but I reckon it will create a heat issue because of the dark color of the panels. Our roof spaces get hot enough as it is.
I went the other way and got my attic spaces reinsulated just before the COVID shutdown. The way electricity and natural gas prices have gone thanks to the Ukraine war, I am paying that $3.5k off at quite a rate.
I have recently noted that there are two attachment systems, one spaces the panels off your roof so you need wire skirts to keep the pigeons out. Mind you, it does form a kind of fly sheet over the roof. The other system has the panels closely mounted to the roof tiles. Fixes the pigeon issue, but I reckon it will create a heat issue because of the dark color of the panels. Our roof spaces get hot enough as it is.
I went the other way and got my attic spaces reinsulated just before the COVID shutdown. The way electricity and natural gas prices have gone thanks to the Ukraine war, I am paying that $3.5k off at quite a rate.
I talked to one neighbor who bragged that she was saving $80/month on electricity since installing her panels. I asked her how much the payment on the panels was. She got a funny look on her face, and said, "Oh . . . umm . . . well, it's about $350."
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Oldengineer
Member
Our off-grid Forest Service cabin has a 4KW, 48 volt solar SYSTEM. The system is comprised of 12 335 watt roof mounted panels, Outback power electronics, 16 12 volt sealed telecom batteries, and a 11KW propane Generac. It was a $30K idea in 2019 and it powers the cabin completely, even in the winter months. As a result, we spend a lot of time in the forest, and that is desirable. It has been a game changer.
Being in Arizona plays a big role in the system performance. I don't think I'd be near as happy if I was still in Michigan. Where you live is an important variable. I also believe that an electric vehicle for around town use starts to make sense. I can charge it for free as I make way more power than I use. Of course, we do all of the heavy usage before dark.
The critical path seems to be finding a place to store all those little electrons!
Tom H.
Being in Arizona plays a big role in the system performance. I don't think I'd be near as happy if I was still in Michigan. Where you live is an important variable. I also believe that an electric vehicle for around town use starts to make sense. I can charge it for free as I make way more power than I use. Of course, we do all of the heavy usage before dark.
The critical path seems to be finding a place to store all those little electrons!
Tom H.
cherrypointmarine
Member
I second what Harrison said , check with your homeowners insurance agent . Like so many here , my insurance company is leaving Fl . When I was calling around , the 2nd or 3rd question was always do you have panels on your roof . Now we do have hurricanes which can rip them off , but other parts of the country have their share of storms . So do call and ask , you might get lucky . And do go by what the salesman tells you .
Solar Panels
I have solar panels which was installed free though a federally grant. The panels saves me approx $100.00 month on my electric bill. Downside is you have to sign a 25 year lease. Also here in Florida the Home Owner Insurance Companies require a new roof be installed before they will insure your house. I had to pay the solar panel company $1784.00 to remove the panels where the new roof could be installed. After the new roof was finished I had to pay the solar panel company another $1784.00 to reinstall the panels.
I have solar panels which was installed free though a federally grant. The panels saves me approx $100.00 month on my electric bill. Downside is you have to sign a 25 year lease. Also here in Florida the Home Owner Insurance Companies require a new roof be installed before they will insure your house. I had to pay the solar panel company $1784.00 to remove the panels where the new roof could be installed. After the new roof was finished I had to pay the solar panel company another $1784.00 to reinstall the panels.
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HardToHandle
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This week, President Biden authorized a massive amount of Chinese/foreign panels, otherwise under significant tariff, into the U.S. under executive action on August 12. If you are in the market for solar, this should dramatically improve availability, as it almost tripled the tariff free quantity imported to the U.S.
A Proclamation To Further Facilitate Positive Adjustment to Competition From Imports of Certain Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaic Cells (Whether or Not Partially or Fully Assembled Into Other Products) | The White House
Also, Nashville FBI filed a recent case on a Chinese espionage.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1341561/dl?inline
A Proclamation To Further Facilitate Positive Adjustment to Competition From Imports of Certain Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaic Cells (Whether or Not Partially or Fully Assembled Into Other Products) | The White House
Also, Nashville FBI filed a recent case on a Chinese espionage.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1341561/dl?inline
About four or five years ago my neighbor got them. Supposedly his electric bill is $10, but he had to pay for a new roof on top of whatever costs for the solar install and panels.
I got curious and talked to a rep. Long story short, I asked to see the contract, they wouldn't show it to me until I committed - they said it was company policy. I told them I wasn't going to commit until I see the contract and all other documents as per my policy.
My neighbor emailed me the PDF copy of his contact and when I read it - I'm barely literate, can't type, but even with my basic reading comprehension skills it was a no-go for me.
My electro bill is averages $75-80 per month for the year AND I don't have to hook up to the "smart" grid.
I got curious and talked to a rep. Long story short, I asked to see the contract, they wouldn't show it to me until I committed - they said it was company policy. I told them I wasn't going to commit until I see the contract and all other documents as per my policy.
My neighbor emailed me the PDF copy of his contact and when I read it - I'm barely literate, can't type, but even with my basic reading comprehension skills it was a no-go for me.
My electro bill is averages $75-80 per month for the year AND I don't have to hook up to the "smart" grid.
smoothshooter
Member
If or when one has to be replaced is there a disposal fee?
charlie sherrill
Member
Will you please tell the forum how we can plug into that? I, and I am sure others, would like to know how we can harness this energy.
charlie sherrill
Member
My brother, a mathematician and fellow
Forum member "Louisiana Joe" recently, at the insistence of his wife, had these things put on his roof. He told me that it would be 30 years or more before he recouped his money from their savings on electricity. Joe will be 80 his next birthday. I had thought about this but don't want them on the roof. I've got enough land to mount them on the ground but a recent hailstorm got me to thinking. There are several areas around here where they are bull dozing forests and installing solar farms. Not real cool with that either. If you want to place them in the parking lot at places like Wally World, and providing me with a cooler place to park in the hot Southern sun, I'm OK with that, but let's make them here instead of China. I don't really like financing their military with the profits they make off of us. Also, as mentioned above, what are you going to do with them when they wear out or get storm damage.
Forum member "Louisiana Joe" recently, at the insistence of his wife, had these things put on his roof. He told me that it would be 30 years or more before he recouped his money from their savings on electricity. Joe will be 80 his next birthday. I had thought about this but don't want them on the roof. I've got enough land to mount them on the ground but a recent hailstorm got me to thinking. There are several areas around here where they are bull dozing forests and installing solar farms. Not real cool with that either. If you want to place them in the parking lot at places like Wally World, and providing me with a cooler place to park in the hot Southern sun, I'm OK with that, but let's make them here instead of China. I don't really like financing their military with the profits they make off of us. Also, as mentioned above, what are you going to do with them when they wear out or get storm damage.
Pipe dream as the domestic oil production as reported by America oil producers for the last 2 years exceeds any period prior to 2020. To view the reason for high energy cost take a look at the record profits posted by the energy producers. Consumer energy costs have doubled in a direct relationship to producer profits.
[QUOTE
Long term benefit?[/QUOTE]
An automatic reduction of your bank account and probably your actual home value as well. The property tax accessor will probably see them as a reason to increase your valuation therefore property taxes go up as well.
Long term benefit?[/QUOTE]
An automatic reduction of your bank account and probably your actual home value as well. The property tax accessor will probably see them as a reason to increase your valuation therefore property taxes go up as well.
I have an inherited seasonal 2nd home in Vermont and had solar and Tesla batteries installed on my detached garage in 2020. The garage is 2 story/2 bay with a standing seam metal roof. The arrays clamp to the standing seems so no holes through the roof. The LG panels are on both the east and west facing roofs. 20 panels on each roof for approx. 14kW output. The Tesla batteries cost me $5,500 each via a program Tesla does with the local power companies - that price was 1/2 of retail. My main power feed is on the garage so it was an easy hookup. I also sell power back to the grid so my typical power bill is $12-15/month regardless of season. (main heat is a propane boiler) The switch from grid to battery is so fast you can't tell the grid is down except the app will alert you that you've gone onto backup. The batteries store approx. 15kW - easily 2 days of power without accounting for daytime recharging which occurs even on cloudy days. I could have done a whole home generator for half of what the solar cost initially but would need to deal with the noise and fueling. I love it. (Musk not so much to put it mildly)
At the time of the solar install the Tesla batteries were on backorder so the Tesla panel was not in my original photo of the installed electrical boxes. Sorry about the sideways photos - they were oriented correctly on my computer so it happened in the upload.
At the time of the solar install the Tesla batteries were on backorder so the Tesla panel was not in my original photo of the installed electrical boxes. Sorry about the sideways photos - they were oriented correctly on my computer so it happened in the upload.
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The biggest problem with solar is not the panel but how it is connected to the system. My panels produce more than the junctions allow. Not sure why that is. My production will top out at a certain maximum. If you get solar you will need to check that what the panel will produce is what will be put into the system.
That also comes up in a google search, but it refers to TFT or Thin Film panels, not the type used for residential use.
What is your actual concern for exposure? Are you concerned about landfill?
Does lead exposure concern you?
Jon651
Member
We investigated rooftop solar a few years back and turned it down for three distinct reasons:
1. We didn't want to mount anything that might compromise the integrity of our roof. We have a metal roof that has held up wonderfully thru many hurricanes. With metal roofs you have to be very specific where you drill in order to prevent leaks, and the contractor was a little too cavalier about "we'll just hit the mounting holes with some silicone".
2. The break-even point for paying off the cost of the panels was 10-12 years, which didn't even include the interest if we financed the purchase. That is way too long.
3. Florida recently passed a rule that says the power companies can pay you less for any excess power than the rate they charge you for their own power.
For the same money I would instead recommend new insulated windows, extra insulation in your attic, and a new high-efficiency HVAC system if you need any of them.
1. We didn't want to mount anything that might compromise the integrity of our roof. We have a metal roof that has held up wonderfully thru many hurricanes. With metal roofs you have to be very specific where you drill in order to prevent leaks, and the contractor was a little too cavalier about "we'll just hit the mounting holes with some silicone".
2. The break-even point for paying off the cost of the panels was 10-12 years, which didn't even include the interest if we financed the purchase. That is way too long.
3. Florida recently passed a rule that says the power companies can pay you less for any excess power than the rate they charge you for their own power.
For the same money I would instead recommend new insulated windows, extra insulation in your attic, and a new high-efficiency HVAC system if you need any of them.
LVSteve
Member
^ This. Nobody wants to mention the 'passive' methods of improving energy efficiency. I assume that is because they are a 'one and done' affair with no further profit to be made down the road. I had the attic redone to R-49 just before COVID, and the difference has been huge. I've yet to see a $400/month summer bill, despite living in a stupidly designed home near 3000 SF full of cathedral ceilings and knee walls, and the big jump in electricity rates thanks to the Ukraine war.
I had a solar guy approach me about the lease scheme and he stopped dead when I said, "I've got my energy under control. I had the attic done to R-49." The 'Uh-oh!' look that spread over his face was priceless.
The benefit of new windows can vary greatly depending on where you live, how many windows you have, and the aspect of the house. This house would certainly benefit, but to what degree given the outlay I cannot say. My wife's former employers (Mr and Mrs Loaded) had fantastic windows in their new build. It felt like almost no radiated heat made it through at all. I didn't ask the price, because I'm sure I could not afford it.
This is common in a lot of places . They don't pay you , they CREDIT you at the wholesale rate . The same rate they would buy the power for on the open market . That's fair but of course most people don't see it that way .
I would love to lower my electric bill. Expensive her. It averages about 160 a month. We looked into solar. I would have gone for it but all the incentives by the gummit and state gummit are not available everywhere and in most states if you put power into the grid the utility has to pay you a reasonable amount for what they get...not in Wy. ...not even 20% of what they charge you. I would not mount on the roof. Have enough acreage to get the setup away from the house
I know some guys who have worked in silicon plants. Lots of methel ethel bad stuff. They had to carry an escape mask with them everywhere. I don't think you really want them made in America.
Not lead, but rather cadmium (which is used in rigid panels). And yes, disposal cost is not worked in when selling these. It should.
Unless you're chopping up and snorting the panels, your exposure risk to the cadmium is virtually nil.
Lead, a known toxin and pollutant is something we in the hobby choose to expose ourselves to.
I'd prefer fewer mandated fees, and more free-market recycling solutions for the valuable resources, personally.
Jon651
Member
Just saw a news report that said even in a hot housing market, houses with solar panels installed were much slower to sell and typically below asking price. Not every buyer wants it, and if you get it installed and have to sell your house you may not recoup your investment.
On the list of improvements you could make to your house based on how much you would expect to recoup when sold, aftermarket solar was pretty low on the list.
On the list of improvements you could make to your house based on how much you would expect to recoup when sold, aftermarket solar was pretty low on the list.
I have long thought that certain people have a much easyer time of getting serious medical problems. Of course that means that some people have a high tolerance to the same issue.
A example. I worked at a plumbing shop when younger (early 70s) that did a lot of lead work. Lead services and working around medical equipment that we had to install a lot of lead sheeting, shower waterproofing. I shudder to think how much I inhaled or contacted by that work.
I also did lots of reloading, 4 gauges (Skeet) then went into bullseye shooting for a year in a range that to put it mildly was far from healthy. Then stopped skeet and started doing PPC shooting for years and did lots of practice/reloading and thusly was around a lot of lead. (Still used that indoor range for years, heck we have some bad winter weather)
Was having a medical problem, told Doc my tail of woah and he ordered a lead test. Funny in my case it came back as just on the high side of normal. Had the test redone and same result.
Hey you never know!
Alton
Member
So how did the meeting go?
