Solar panels

[HardToHandle]

This week, President Biden authorized a massive amount of Chinese/foreign panels, otherwise under significant tariff, into the U.S. under executive action on August 12. If you are in the market for solar, this should dramatically improve availability, as it almost tripled the tariff free quantity imported to the U.S.

A Proclamation To Further Facilitate Positive Adjustment to Competition From Imports of Certain Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaic Cells (Whether or Not Partially or Fully Assembled Into Other Products) | The White House

Also, Nashville FBI filed a recent case on a Chinese espionage.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1341561/dl?inline

 

[Ματθιας]

About four or five years ago my neighbor got them. Supposedly his electric bill is $10, but he had to pay for a new roof on top of whatever costs for the solar install and panels.

I got curious and talked to a rep. Long story short, I asked to see the contract, they wouldn't show it to me until I committed - they said it was company policy. I told them I wasn't going to commit until I see the contract and all other documents as per my policy.

My neighbor emailed me the PDF copy of his contact and when I read it - I'm barely literate, can't type, but even with my basic reading comprehension skills it was a no-go for me.

My electro bill is averages $75-80 per month for the year AND I don't have to hook up to the "smart" grid.

 

[smoothshooter]

If or when one has to be replaced is there a disposal fee?

 

[charlie sherrill]

I could run 20 camps on baked beans night!

Will you please tell the forum how we can plug into that? I, and I am sure others, would like to know how we can harness this energy.

 

[charlie sherrill]

My brother, a mathematician and fellow
Forum member "Louisiana Joe" recently, at the insistence of his wife, had these things put on his roof. He told me that it would be 30 years or more before he recouped his money from their savings on electricity. Joe will be 80 his next birthday. I had thought about this but don't want them on the roof. I've got enough land to mount them on the ground but a recent hailstorm got me to thinking. There are several areas around here where they are bull dozing forests and installing solar farms. Not real cool with that either. If you want to place them in the parking lot at places like Wally World, and providing me with a cooler place to park in the hot Southern sun, I'm OK with that, but let's make them here instead of China. I don't really like financing their military with the profits they make off of us. Also, as mentioned above, what are you going to do with them when they wear out or get storm damage.

 

[steelslaver]

Better to hope for a return to "drill baby drill" which would bring utility rates down.

Pipe dream as the domestic oil production as reported by America oil producers for the last 2 years exceeds any period prior to 2020. To view the reason for high energy cost take a look at the record profits posted by the energy producers. Consumer energy costs have doubled in a direct relationship to producer profits.

 

[targetchief]

[QUOTE
Long term benefit?[/QUOTE]

An automatic reduction of your bank account and probably your actual home value as well. The property tax accessor will probably see them as a reason to increase your valuation therefore property taxes go up as well.

 

[bullmack]

I have an inherited seasonal 2nd home in Vermont and had solar and Tesla batteries installed on my detached garage in 2020. The garage is 2 story/2 bay with a standing seam metal roof. The arrays clamp to the standing seems so no holes through the roof. The LG panels are on both the east and west facing roofs. 20 panels on each roof for approx. 14kW output. The Tesla batteries cost me $5,500 each via a program Tesla does with the local power companies - that price was 1/2 of retail. My main power feed is on the garage so it was an easy hookup. I also sell power back to the grid so my typical power bill is $12-15/month regardless of season. (main heat is a propane boiler) The switch from grid to battery is so fast you can't tell the grid is down except the app will alert you that you've gone onto backup. The batteries store approx. 15kW - easily 2 days of power without accounting for daytime recharging which occurs even on cloudy days. I could have done a whole home generator for half of what the solar cost initially but would need to deal with the noise and fueling. I love it. (Musk not so much to put it mildly)

At the time of the solar install the Tesla batteries were on backorder so the Tesla panel was not in my original photo of the installed electrical boxes. Sorry about the sideways photos - they were oriented correctly on my computer so it happened in the upload.

 

[IAM Rand]

The biggest problem with solar is not the panel but how it is connected to the system. My panels produce more than the junctions allow. Not sure why that is. My production will top out at a certain maximum. If you get solar you will need to check that what the panel will produce is what will be put into the system.

 

[PatriotX]

toxic chemicals in solar panels include cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride.

That also comes up in a google search, but it refers to TFT or Thin Film panels, not the type used for residential use.

What is your actual concern for exposure? Are you concerned about landfill?

Does lead exposure concern you?

 

[Jon651]

We investigated rooftop solar a few years back and turned it down for three distinct reasons:

1. We didn't want to mount anything that might compromise the integrity of our roof. We have a metal roof that has held up wonderfully thru many hurricanes. With metal roofs you have to be very specific where you drill in order to prevent leaks, and the contractor was a little too cavalier about "we'll just hit the mounting holes with some silicone".

2. The break-even point for paying off the cost of the panels was 10-12 years, which didn't even include the interest if we financed the purchase. That is way too long.

3. Florida recently passed a rule that says the power companies can pay you less for any excess power than the rate they charge you for their own power.

For the same money I would instead recommend new insulated windows, extra insulation in your attic, and a new high-efficiency HVAC system if you need any of them.

 

[LVSteve]

For the same money I would instead recommend new insulated windows, extra insulation in your attic, and a new high-efficiency HVAC system if you need any of them.

^ This. Nobody wants to mention the 'passive' methods of improving energy efficiency. I assume that is because they are a 'one and done' affair with no further profit to be made down the road. I had the attic redone to R-49 just before COVID, and the difference has been huge. I've yet to see a $400/month summer bill, despite living in a stupidly designed home near 3000 SF full of cathedral ceilings and knee walls, and the big jump in electricity rates thanks to the Ukraine war.

I had a solar guy approach me about the lease scheme and he stopped dead when I said, "I've got my energy under control. I had the attic done to R-49." The 'Uh-oh!' look that spread over his face was priceless.

The benefit of new windows can vary greatly depending on where you live, how many windows you have, and the aspect of the house. This house would certainly benefit, but to what degree given the outlay I cannot say. My wife's former employers (Mr and Mrs Loaded) had fantastic windows in their new build. It felt like almost no radiated heat made it through at all. I didn't ask the price, because I'm sure I could not afford it.

 

[djohns6]

We investigated rooftop solar a few years back and turned it down for three distinct reasons:





3. Florida recently passed a rule that says the power companies can pay you less for any excess power than the rate they charge you for their own power.
.

This is common in a lot of places . They don't pay you , they CREDIT you at the wholesale rate . The same rate they would buy the power for on the open market . That's fair but of course most people don't see it that way .

 

[Skeet 028]

I would love to lower my electric bill. Expensive her. It averages about 160 a month. We looked into solar. I would have gone for it but all the incentives by the gummit and state gummit are not available everywhere and in most states if you put power into the grid the utility has to pay you a reasonable amount for what they get...not in Wy. ...not even 20% of what they charge you. I would not mount on the roof. Have enough acreage to get the setup away from the house

 

[steelslaver]

I know some guys who have worked in silicon plants. Lots of methel ethel bad stuff. They had to carry an escape mask with them everywhere. I don't think you really want them made in America.

 

[delcrossv]

That also comes up in a google search, but it refers to TFT or Thin Film panels, not the type used for residential use.

What is your actual concern for exposure? Are you concerned about landfill?

Does lead exposure concern you?

Not lead, but rather cadmium (which is used in rigid panels). And yes, disposal cost is not worked in when selling these. It should.

 

[PatriotX]

Not lead, but rather cadmium (which is used in rigid panels). And yes, disposal cost is not worked in when selling these. It should.

Unless you're chopping up and snorting the panels, your exposure risk to the cadmium is virtually nil.

Lead, a known toxin and pollutant is something we in the hobby choose to expose ourselves to.

I'd prefer fewer mandated fees, and more free-market recycling solutions for the valuable resources, personally.

 

[Jon651]

Just saw a news report that said even in a hot housing market, houses with solar panels installed were much slower to sell and typically below asking price. Not every buyer wants it, and if you get it installed and have to sell your house you may not recoup your investment.

On the list of improvements you could make to your house based on how much you would expect to recoup when sold, aftermarket solar was pretty low on the list.

 

[NYlakesider]

Unless you're chopping up and snorting the panels, your exposure risk to the cadmium is virtually nil.

Lead, a known toxin and pollutant is something we in the hobby choose to expose ourselves to.

I'd prefer fewer mandated fees, and more free-market recycling solutions for the valuable resources, personally.

I have long thought that certain people have a much easyer time of getting serious medical problems. Of course that means that some people have a high tolerance to the same issue.

A example. I worked at a plumbing shop when younger (early 70s) that did a lot of lead work. Lead services and working around medical equipment that we had to install a lot of lead sheeting, shower waterproofing. I shudder to think how much I inhaled or contacted by that work.

I also did lots of reloading, 4 gauges (Skeet) then went into bullseye shooting for a year in a range that to put it mildly was far from healthy. Then stopped skeet and started doing PPC shooting for years and did lots of practice/reloading and thusly was around a lot of lead. (Still used that indoor range for years, heck we have some bad winter weather)

Was having a medical problem, told Doc my tail of woah and he ordered a lead test. Funny in my case it came back as just on the high side of normal. Had the test redone and same result.

Hey you never know!

 

[Alton]

So how did the meeting go?