Some help with Grandfather's LE belt/holster

[GerSan69]

>A very good resource for you, is this article by one of my correspondents (entirely his own work):
Fighting Leather: The Clamshell Holster - RevolverGuy.Com<
Oh, man. Thank you, Red! What an awesome read.
I didn't just spend 35 of my years in policing, I was a fan ever since my pre-teen years. I was the one everyone I knew just expected would end up a cop. I watched every show, listened to the police radio, and followed what was going on in the papers. I continued that through my career, following the various trends in equipment and vehicles all over the country. LAPD was a particular favorite, and when I had an opportunity to attend an LAPD class in 1987 at The Academy, I jumped at it. It was awesome - the Jack Webb Building, the iconic arch, and the giant nightstick on the wall in the grille.
I still follow policing and the tools of the trade to a degree, but the plastic revolution kind of dampened the fun. Leather can be made into artwork, plastic is just - industrial garbage. No soul.
I recognized many of the points in the Revolver Guy post. It was a trip down memory lane. Thank you very much!

 

[rednichols]

Red, That is a great article. Thanks for sharing.

Based on the pictures I've posted here, do you have an opinion about the manufacturer of mine?

I poked around Google for a bit, looking for two clues in particular: the basketweave's border tool (which is called a camouflage tool) that does vary from maker to maker; and the construction of the metal piece that blocks the trigger from being pulled.



Based on the first one, I had strong feelings in favor of C.A. Hoffman & Sons; but as close as their border tool is to yours it is not identical.



Based on the second, I have strong feelings in favor of Safety Speed -- but VERY early, perhaps at the handoff from Jewett. Because unlike nearly all I've seen, the metal piece on yours is a wire loop; whereas on the Hoffman's it's a plate with a hole in it.



The above only plausible because yours is very early (as is the Jewett patent) because the Safety Speed folks that I knew used aluminium for the body of their holster -- and more importantly used a very different camouflage tool.

The imprint reads:

THE SPEED HOLSTER
U.S. Pat. Oct 10 1933 Copyright 193(x)
Manufactured by
The Jewett Safety Holster Co.
Bakersfield, Calif

The patent indicated that it was created to eliminate the need to carry the long revolvers on swivels -- yet 98% of all of them are on swivels. FYI the use of 'copyright' in the marking is puzzling because it is established law that a short phrase, such as the title of a book or film, cannot be copyrighted. It could have been trademarked but a review of the federal copyright registrations online indicates none of these words -- jewett, safety, speed -- were linked with 'holster'.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Beautiful revolver-and Indian-thanks for the post!

 

[rednichols]

The rarest of all clamshells, which I owned for a short time -- the Hopalong Cassidy version. Box and revolver were original to the holster itself:



The image almost made it into The Book.

 

[SuperMan]

The gun and whole rig is such a treasure...thanks so much for sharing....

If I recall from my reading, the clamshell holsters went out of favor because a) they would sometimes malfunction and dump the gun b) once the bad guys (who may not be rocket scientists but aren't stupid) figured out how they opened some major security advantage was lost...

I started with Dallas PD in 1977 and both clamshell and break front holsters could not be carried...I think swivels were banned also or shortly after I stated.... When I started working in NH in 1989 I was surprised to see a lot of swivel holsters...comfort over speed....

Bob

 

[turnerriver]

I'm just spit-ballin' here, but can anyone say if that is an old Berns-Martin holster?

To the OP: You are a very lucky person.

JPJ

There is a superficial resemblance, both holsters enclose the revolver and both are open along the front of the holster. The Berns-Martin holds the revolver with a C spring around the cylinder, the revolver is drawn by rocking it forward through the open part of the C and bringing the barrel up onto the target. The clamshell design opens completely leaving the revolver unemcumbered.
Red's Hopalong Cassidy clamshell Holster is a marvel. According to one old article I read there were models made for .38 Super & .45 auto pistols that were sent to Mexico, they are rare examples as well.
Regards,
turnerriver

 

[rednichols]

There is a superficial resemblance, both holsters enclose the revolver and both are open along the front of the holster. The Berns-Martin holds the revolver with a C spring around the cylinder, the revolver is drawn by rocking it forward through the open part of the C and bringing the barrel up onto the target. The clamshell design opens completely leaving the revolver unemcumbered.
Red's Hopalong Cassidy clamshell Holster is a marvel. According to one old article I read there were models made for .38 Super & .45 auto pistols that were sent to Mexico, they are rare examples as well.
Regards,
turnerriver

I have always admired that picture of yours, turnerriver, of that B-M that I expect is a Calhoun City model. The details of the Speed holster changed from its introduction in the early '30s, then throughout CC's years which were '50s and into the '60s, and then more when Elberton production began early '60s (it seems the two companies operated in parallel until Martin died in '68). Magnificent.

Your image exaggerates (for me) the large, hand-sewn opening that admitted the relatively narrow spring; and the holster is also 'blocked' squarely at a width much greater than the spring. I have to wonder why the opening was made so large in the first place. Have any X-ray access?

I, too, have seen those 1911 clamshells, at least one of which also had a belt loop on its backside. The entire assembly was really awkward looking. With the same story about them being for the Super Automatic. I'm recalling there were more than one in the posted thread? So slightly less rare than the Hoppy.

 

[turnerriver]

No X-ray access but that holster was made for a .44 Magnum with target stocks so it's the biggest revolver around at the time.
Regards,
turnerriver

 

[Watchdog]

What a great thread! This kind of thread is one of the real reasons people join up on this forum.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Great post! Brings back a lot of memories.

My experience in law enforcement was from early 1970's to mid 1990's. Those years spanned the transition from revolvers to semi-autos, but probably more importantly allowed me to know and work with senior officers with experiences starting in the 1940's. Quite a few were WW2 veterans, lots of Korea vets, and the "puppy policemen" like me were mostly Vietnam vets.

One of the things that doesn't seem to come up much in these conversations is just how expensive some of that gear was for us to buy (very few agencies issued handguns, leather gear, uniforms, etc). I started out at a salary of $657 per month (less than $4 per hour), and after taxes, pension fund, and health insurance were withheld my take-home pay was $192 every two weeks. I had two kids to feed and my house payment was $182 per month, so it should be obvious that there was never much "discretionary income" left.

Sure, a new Model 19 could be had (LEO price) for $125, a new Model 36 was about $80, and Colt Commander or Government Model could be had for about $100. But those dollars were as scarce then as the new prices are today!

Getting set up to go to work was tough. A couple of the "police supply" companies offered charge accounts with payroll deduction through the employer. Three pairs of trousers, 3 summer shirts, 3 winter shirts, uniform cap, winter jacket, raincoat, boots or shoes, Sam Browne belt, holster, handcuffs & pouch, ammo pouch, nightstick & belt ring, and a revolver (Colt or S&W, 4", blued steel, .38 or .357) all added up to well over a month's pay. The payroll deductions for my charge account at the police supply company took a year to pay off (by which time I needed more uniforms).

I remember the clamshell holsters, and the break-front holsters, and a lot of other cool stuff that I just could not afford to buy!

That element of economic necessity got me started making leather holsters and accessories in 1972. That was the only way I could have the stuff I wanted, or convinced myself that I needed, without dipping into the grocery money feeding my wife and kids. When the other guys at work saw me wearing a new holster they started asking me to make more for them, and I shamelessly took their meager lunch money to do so. After work and on my days off I spent much of my time at the kitchen table doing patterns, cutting leather, painfully hand-stitching every seam (probably averaging $3 or $4 per hour, but every dollar came in very handy during those days).

 

[dnater]

I always knew about pushing the button through the trigger guard, but didn't realize it had the block behind the trigger. I had heard they were "outlawed" because of accidental discharge. I incorrectly assumed it was from pushing the button. I can see how it is possible during holstering. Thanks for posting the pictures.

The danger with those was reholstering a cocked gun and pushing against the metal loop with the trigger. Later Safety Speed clamshells replaced the metal loop with a plastic block. Good argument for a DAO revolver if you were going to allow clamshells on a PD.

 

[CaperK38]

rocknroad and everyone posting on this thread, thank you very much. Not only did I enjoy it very much but learned a great deal.

 

[dnater]

Those foam pieces inside the holster are not original to the holster. It would have had the smooth leather lining. Holsters could be modified to fit different guns. I had mine switched from a 4" K frame to a 4" L frame when we got 686's in the '80s. Safety Speed changed the blocking on the body side of the holster and replaced the lining.

 

[rocknroad]

Those foam pieces inside the holster are not original to the holster. It would have had the smooth leather lining. Holsters could be modified to fit different guns. I had mine switched from a 4" K frame to a 4" L frame when we got 686's in the '80s. Safety Speed changed the blocking on the body side of the holster and replaced the lining.

Yes, I understand. The padding was something my grandfather added. The lump closest to the trigger guard has turned into a jagged rock. The barrel pad, as I've finally figured out, was what wore the blueing off the right side of the Outdoorsman. Also, what you can't see in the pictures is, the end of the barrel wore through the leather lining, exposing the steele frame on the outside clamshell.

 

[rocknroad]

rocknroad and everyone posting on this thread, thank you very much. Not only did I enjoy it very much but learned a great deal.

I have learned a ton here, too. That clamshell had me stumped until I posted here.

 

[RayVet]

My Dad was with the CHP, 1950-1979. He carried his K38 Masterpiece, in a RH. Hoyte clamshell. Other clamshells, of lesser quality were scorned, especially by the motor cops, as the vibration would sometimes cause the locking latch to fail—->Lost Gun. Also, on his, the release button was in the trigger guard. Not much of a problem for the well trained, with a double action revolver. Clamshells were eventuality banned, but were grandfathered, and Dad retired wearing his, and at 60, he was "fastest " out of the holster, at his office. I have that holster and rig, complete with swivel, dump pouches and handcuff case. Cheers!

 

[rocknroad]

My Dad was with the CHP, 1950-1979. He carried his K38 Masterpiece, in a RH. Hoyte clamshell. Other clamshells, of lesser quality were scorned, especially by the motor cops, as the vibration would sometimes cause the locking latch to fail—->Lost Gun. Also, on his, the release button was in the trigger guard. Not much of a problem for the well trained, with a double action revolver. Clamshells were eventuality banned, but were grandfathered, and Dad retired wearing his, and at 60, he was "fastest " out of the holster, at his office. I have that holster and rig, complete with swivel, dump pouches and handcuff case. Cheers!

I'd love to see it. Please post pictures, if you can.

Since my GD's belt was R.H. Hoyte, maybe the holster was too?

 

[Andrew2105]

As I recall Bill Jordan mentions these in his book. If you would like to see a "clamshell" in use, the Policemen in "Adam 12" used these. Odd looking sight , gun in hand, holster on belt wide open.

 

[RayVet]

I'd love to see it. Please post pictures, if you can.

Since my GD's belt was R.H. Hoyte, maybe the holster was too?

I have to dig them out first.
Also: some cops complained that ya needed 2 hands to reholster. Problematic when trying to handcuff a perp. Dad said "Hell, I just shoved the gun into my waistband " never had a problem. Old School. I also have his old sap. A spring loaded blackjack.

 

[rednichols]

My Dad was with the CHP, 1950-1979. He carried his K38 Masterpiece, in a RH. Hoyte clamshell. Other clamshells, of lesser quality were scorned, especially by the motor cops, as the vibration would sometimes cause the locking latch to fail—->Lost Gun. Also, on his, the release button was in the trigger guard. Not much of a problem for the well trained, with a double action revolver. Clamshells were eventuality banned, but were grandfathered, and Dad retired wearing his, and at 60, he was "fastest " out of the holster, at his office. I have that holster and rig, complete with swivel, dump pouches and handcuff case. Cheers!

All good except Dick Hoyt didn't make the clamshell; ever. He is best known for his forward draw holster, that preceded the now-well-known Bianchi 'Breakfront'. Forward draw holsters are spring loaded, too, but stay shut while the revolver is drawn.

Perhaps Dad's belt was a Hoyt and that's where you've picked up the name; but not his clamshell holster. If his clamshell is unmarked by the maker then it is likely an original Jewett. I've picked up more info about Jewett and his business partners and will work out a way to post it without retyping it all!