Some Schofield "Eye Candy"......enjoy!

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A few photos.....
1st, 1st Model U.S. Schofield with an original 2-Hole M1881 US Holster and box of 1878 Frankford Arsenal .45 cartridges
2nd, Close up of the box with loaded cylinder
3rd, 1st Model US and 2nd Model Civilian Schofield's with ammo
4th, sealed box of Frankford Arsenal 1878 original ammo and 6 loose rounds.
5th, Close up of box label. This box was resold by Bannerman's and most boxes they sold had been opened and resealed.

Just wished these old pea shooters could talk!!!
Enjoy!
 

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Very Nice ol pea shooters. I've got too get me one of those one of these days. Great photo;s also.

Everett
 
Very nice assembly. Note that these military produced ammo. boxes are marked only as "Caliber .45" as the cartridges will fit either the Schofield or the Colt SAA revolvers. Commercial ammo. boxes are marked as " .45 S&W Schofield." Ed.
 
Larry, some day I will shoot these guns with a safe load.....but for now I will hopefully find one of the Model 2000 Schofield's to take to the range. I have a lead on a NIB blue and an NIB nickel.......just need to decide which one to buy! I am told the nickel finish is scarce for the Model 2000.
Tom
 

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While reading through an old copy of a 1953 American Rifleman, which had an article about the Schofield's, I read that Col. Schofield committed suicide in his quarters with one of his guns, which I assume was a Schofield model. I just wonder if anyone knows of what became of that particular weapon? Would Roy Jinks have a record of the exact gun that Col. Schofield would have received from S&W or would he have been using a random piece from a military shipment? Sounds morbid, but it would be interesting to know.
 
Howdy

I see the cartridges are Benet primed. I have a lidless box of 45 Colts from 1874, also Benet primed. I believe these are military issue too. Notice these are the 30 grain loads, not the 40 grain commercial loads.


45ColtBenetPrimedBox03_zps73800f6e.jpg


45ColtBenetPrimedBox02_zps0e1df06e.jpg


Regarding Colonel Schofield's death, I seem to recall he was despondent over the death of his wife. Speculation that he used a Schofield revolver is just that, speculation. It has never been proven, at least not that I know of.
 
Thanks for the pics.....that is some early ammo!
I know of a fellow with a sealed 45 box marked 1873......the first FA shipped I believe.

The article I read did not mention anything about his wife's death.....just that he may have gone crazed for some unknown reason. Apparently at the time he did it, he had several inventions in the works and patents applied for.

The story read that he was washing up for the night and his butler was stoking the fire...... He asked the butler to get him something and as soon as the butler left, a shot went off.
 
Great Schofields and great photography. Thanks for posting
 
. . . I have a lidless box of 45 Colts from 1874, also Benet primed. I believe these are military issue too. Notice these are the 30 grain loads, not the 40 grain commercial loads.

I have never seen a 30 grain load of antique 45 Colt cartridges. Why would they reduce the load in these when 40 grains would have fit?? The bullet is standard weight for both 45 S&W and Colt, but that cartridge would not have fit in the Schofield??

I have an 1880 US Cartridge Co. catalog that shows only one load for 45 Colt (40 grain) and 30 grains for 45 S&W . . . Interesting but can't figure out why the light load?

BTW - nice pair of Schofields you have there Tom. I have a Navy Arms(Uberti) Schofield that I have shot for 10 years in 45 Colt. Never had any problems with the gun and often shoot 45 S&W just to be authentic. I wonder how many of the Scofield 2000s have been to the range. They are certainly more expensive than a Navy Arms gun and I just don't know if I could take one of those to the range and get it all dirty??
 

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Mr. Rush,

Those are fantastic guns!! Quite a bit more finish than mine have. I am on the hunt for the same belt/buckle and cartridge pouch, so keep me in mind if you run across another!

Are both of your Schofield's US models??

Tom
 
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From the embellished Schofield, to the hard working Schofield but first one in between.

This is a civilian model with all the military markings (except the US on the butt which was the last and final approval). The gun letters as nickel and was shipped from Robinson September 1877.
schof45-albums-schofield-civilian-picture7390-schofield-civilian.jpg

schof45-albums-schofield-civilian-picture12783-barrel.jpg



This one is very well engraved, is mostly silver plated and has the Kelton safety. It might have been a display gun for one of the major S&W distributors or just for somebody that wanted a Schofield with "everything".
schof45-albums-schofield-kelton-picture12776-img-2001.jpg

schof45-albums-schofield-kelton-picture12777-img-2000.jpg

schof45-albums-schofield-kelton-picture9872-img-02.jpg


This is a Schofield with a lot of personality and with what I believe is a period cut barrel (since it has been in that old holster for a looong time). Supposedly used by an old-gunfighter in Mexico (like so many others).
schof45-albums-schofield-short-barrel-picture12778-schofield-short-barrel-gun.jpg

schof45-albums-schofield-short-barrel-picture12779-schofield-short-barrel-holster.jpg

schof45-albums-schofield-short-barrel-picture12780-schofield-short-barrel-barrel.jpg
 

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Does anyone have the ballistics information of these 45 loads?

One of the Barne's "cartridges of the World" editions shows the following modern factory loads:

45 Colt . . . . 250 LRN . . . . 855fps . . . . 405 ft-lbs
45 S&W. . . . 250 LRN . . . . 710fps . . . . 283 ft-lbs

Reloading data from Shoot Magazine shows the gollowing black powder loads:

45 Colt . . . . 250 LRN . . . . 785fps . . . . 30 grains FFg
45 S&W. . . . 250 LRN . . . . 714fps . . . . 22 grains FFg

Modern bullets do not leave enough space to obtain original loads like the old heeled bullets, so it is difficult to reproduce the old loadings. Obviously, with volumes 25% higher in the original 1800s loads, the velicities and muzzle energies would have been at least that much higher.
 
Howdy Again

Here is a photo of my first model Schofield. It shipped in 1875. It looks so good because it was refinished at the factory in April of 1957 according to the stamp under the grips.

schofield01_zpse1ff6025.jpg


I have never seen a 30 grain load of antique 45 Colt cartridges. Why would they reduce the load in these when 40 grains would have fit?? The bullet is standard weight for both 45 S&W and Colt, but that cartridge would not have fit in the Schofield??

I have an 1880 US Cartridge Co. catalog that shows only one load for 45 Colt (40 grain) and 30 grains for 45 S&W . . . Interesting but can't figure out why the light load?

I have seen reference to lighter military 45 Colt loads several places. According to Mike Venturino in his book Shooting Sixguns of the Old West, the 40 grain loads "were soon deemed too powerful and reduced to 35 grains for the rest of the blackpowder cartridge era. Also the U.S. Army reduced their arsenal loads all the way down to 30 grains."

Jerry Kuhnhausen also refers to military 30 grain 45 Colt loads in his book The Colt Single Action Revolvers Shop Manual Volumes 1 & 2.

Why? If Kuhnhuasen is to be believed it is because recoil was excessive with the 40 grain loads. I have also read about early Colt malleable iron cylinders blowing up with the 40 grain loads.

Don't forget, the Army reduced the charge in the 45-70 for carbines to 55 grains of powder, also because of recoil. The empty space was taken up with cardboard wadding. I suspect there is cardboard wadding filling up the extra space in those 30 grain 45 Colt loads of mine, but I am not going to take one apart to find out.

Regardless, when I saw this box of 30 grain 45 Colt loads, I snapped it up. Notice they are from 1874. By 1875 the Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber 45, M1875 was created. This was the cartridge that we have come to call the Schofield Round. It was loaded with a 230 grain bullet and 28 grains of FFg Black Powder. Once these rounds were created the Army stopped supplying the 30 grain 45 Colt rounds because the Schofield round could be used in either the Colt or the Schofield revolvers, while the Colt rounds could only be chambered in a Colt.

A for ballistics data, Venturino lists 808 fps from a 4 3/4" barreled Colt with 35 grains of Goex FFg and a 250 grain bullet. 870 fps for 35 grains of FFFg and the same 250 grain bullet. (Because of the decreased case capacity of modern solid head cases it is difficult to stuff 40 grains of powder into a 45.)

For 45 Schofield he lists 725 fps with a 239 grain bullet and 27 grains of Goex FFg. 805 fps with 27 grains of FFFg. This data is from an original Schofield with a 7" barrel.

My own 45 Colt loads seem a bit anemic by comparison, about 704 fps out of a 7 1/2" barrel with 250 grain bullets. My loading notebook says this was with 2.2CC of Goex FFg under a 250 grain bullet. 2.2CC of Goex translates to about 33 grains. The max that will fit under a 250 grain bullet without using a compression die to stuff in more powder.
 
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I don't think that the load difference can be attributed to the use of heel bullets. So far as I know, the .45 Colt was never loaded with heel bullets, making it unique among early Colt designed cartridges. Probably the Army learned of the advantages of the .44 Russian and specified the inside lubricated round.
 
That is correct. Unlike 44 Colt, 45 Colt was never loaded with heeled bullets, always with inside lubricated bullets. Those rounds of mine are Benet primed with copper folded rim construction. They do not use heeled bullets.
 
Here are my 2

The 2nd model is SFPD marked as well as the hand checkering
 

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Thanks guys - you are absolutely correct about heeled bullets, as both 44 S&W and 44 Colt used that type bullet. I should have looked in my Pitman Notes, Volume Two, since everything is detailed there. Interesting that the notes on 45 do not mention a 40 grain load, yet most modern literature claims that the old Colt loads were 40 grains. The information on the 45 Colt make no mention of any type of filler.

I added the comparisons made by Pitman for your review.
 

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Thank you to all for posting photos of one of my top 5 favorite handguns. I admit that an original is out of the question for me, thus I will be relegated to a Cimarron repro some day.
 
According to historical documents referenced in Moore's book, the Frankford Arsenal loaded only 30 grain loads from the get go in 1873. Union Metallic Cartridge Company made the first commercially produced the loads a couple of months before the Arsenal. These were 30 grain loads as well.
 
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