Someone goes for your gun

[Robert B]

Situation 1: Someone is beating down your front door. You draw and go low ready. He busts into your house. He's unarmed. Instead of running out your door, he approaches you. I'm thinking if he gets my gun my family is dead. So I shoot an unarmed man. Is this the right choice?

Situation 2: You're on the street. Someone threatens you. You think you see a weapon in his hand. You draw and go low ready. It turns out that he's unarmed. Instead of running from you, he still threatens and approaches you. I'm again thinking that if he takes my gun, I'm dead. Do you shoot this person?

 

[Robert B]

Situation 1: Someone is beating down your front door. You draw and go low ready. He busts into your house. He's unarmed. Instead of running out your door, he approaches you. I'm thinking if he gets my gun my family is dead. So I shoot an unarmed man. Is this the right choice?

Situation 2: You're on the street. Someone threatens you. You think you see a weapon in his hand. You draw and go low ready. It turns out that he's unarmed. Instead of running from you, he still threatens and approaches you. I'm again thinking that if he takes my gun, I'm dead. Do you shoot this person?

 

[boomstick]

The answer to both questions is: They're only the right decision if you can convince the prosecutor and judge and/or jury that it was the right decision. What anyone else thinks doesn't matter.

 

[John R]

In your home, SHOOT, out on the street that's another matter.

 

[sipowicz]

Originally posted by Robert B:
Situation 1: Someone is beating down your front door. You draw and go low ready. He busts into your house.

I'm no lawyer, but that seems like violent intentions with or without a weapon...if you are scared for your life, and can articulate it in court, you should be okay.

 

[OKFC05]

The CHL instructor in me forces this comment:

You have to follow the laws of the state where you are standing.

The laws on deadly force vary widely from state to state.

There is NO one answer to either of these questions that applies in all states.

If you don't believe it, compare the deadly force laws of say, OK and MA.

 

[tom turner]

Inside of 19 feet, a person holding a handgun is in mortal danger of being killed by someone with a knife REAL FAST . . . and probably faster than you could shoot AND stop him from getting to you.

Watch his hands. If that fails . . . watch his hands.

 

[redlevel]

Originally posted by OKFC05:
The CHL instructor in me forces this comment:

You have to follow the laws of the state where you are standing.

The laws on deadly force vary widely from state to state.

There is NO one answer to either of these questions that applies in all states.

If you don't believe it, compare the deadly force laws of say, OK and MA.

Thank God for South Georgia, and please God, don't send any more yankees down here.

 

[yashua-p]

Move to Florida. You are good in both situations.

yashua

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by redlevel:
Thank God for South Georgia, and please God, don't send any more yankees down here.

I'm thinking that this Yankee would get along with his southern brothers just fine.

Robert, I would suggest taking a CCW course and if you already have, consult a local attorney, or at least your CCW instructor, with the questions that you have asked here.

 

[m1gunner]

Originally posted by tom turner:
Inside of 19 feet, a person holding a handgun is in mortal danger of being killed by someone with a knife REAL FAST . . . and probably faster than you could shoot AND stop him from getting to you.

Watch his hands. If that fails . . . watch his hands.

Always heard it referred to as the "21 foot rule".

You are right, if close and still closing, you are already out of time.

 

[LuddhaBuddha]

Well I don't know about your state but in KY if someone breaks into your home you have the right to shoot them period. As for the second situation, if someone is moving toward me and threatening me I'm shooting him if I have no option of getting away from the nutcase.

 

[Spotteddog]

I tripped over the dog and it just went off by itself. Don't they always?

 

[WC145]

Originally posted by m1gunner:

Originally posted by tom turner:
Inside of 19 feet, a person holding a handgun is in mortal danger of being killed by someone with a knife REAL FAST . . . and probably faster than you could shoot AND stop him from getting to you.

Watch his hands. If that fails . . . watch his hands.

Always heard it referred to as the "21 foot rule".

You are right, if close and still closing, you are already out of time.

In our training (and a number of other depts) that rule has been extended to 30'.

In your scenarios, like boomstick inferred, the question will be whether or not you can articulate that you feared for your life and if, given the totality of the circumstances, a reasonable man in the same situation would make the same choice.

For me, in uniform or out, if someone is actually trying to take my gun, whether it's drawn or still holstered, my assumption is that he intends to kill me with it and at that point anything goes.

 

[7shooter]

WC145.... Why did your agency extend the range to 30 feet ? Was it simply being cautious or were there incidents that led to the change ? In the carry permit classes we teach we discuss the 21 foot rule and I am wondering if we should extend the distance also. Could there be legal ramifications to extending the commonly accepted distance ?

 

[CarlP2]

Originally posted by LuddhaBuddha:
Well I don't know about your state but in KY if someone breaks into your home you have the right to shoot them period. As for the second situation, if someone is moving toward me and threatening me I'm shooting him if I have no option of getting away from the nutcase.

Alabama has the same law. So in situation 1, he gets lead poisoning.

 

[WC145]

It's a training tool, not a policy. It's a way of getting officers to pay more attention to people that they may have felt were too far away to pose a credible threat. You have to factor in not only the speed someone can cover this distance to you but the time it takes you to respond. What instructors are finding is that with the newer, more secure duty holsters, it takes longer for an officer to get his gun into play.

I don't think it matters if you call it a 21, 25,30 foot or 21 plus rule, you need to be aware of your abilities and the fact that a determined attacker will cover ground much faster and can do more damage in less time than you think. For LEO's and the armed citizen alike, that means looking beyond arms reach and being aware that someone walking in the next lane of the parking lot, the other side of the street, or standing across the room, can pose a serious threat even though, at first glance, you might think you are a safe distance away.

 

[7shooter]

Thanks. I'll pass this on to our instructor team.

 

[Nanook 450]

In Oklahoma and Texas you would be justifed in shooting, you fear for your life given the opportunity for the perp to grab your gun. Entering someone's home uninvited with intent to harm is known as the "Make My Day Law" in Oklahoma.

 

[oldtrooper]

The 21' rule or whatever is a training tool to increase awareness. Years ago while training troopers some did not agree that 21' and closer the aggressor could put a blade in you before your could stop the attack. Some of these were old veterans.

We staged a demo in an open area using a rubber knife and wax bullets in issue .357 S&W Revolvers. The group was observing and it was video taped. If the trooper's revolver was holstered and the attacker started from 21' the attacker always made impact with the rubber knife. It was a draw in some cases as the trooper was able to get the shot off just as the rubber knife impacted.

It was a draw in some instances even if the trooper had the revolver in hand. It changed a lot of attitudes. I have heard of this being used as a demo in some court cases.