something went terribly wrong!

[grnhs]

Got my new 327 M&P R8 on monday and I have just started loading some 38s with some PB powder I have from my trapshooting days. The IMR loading table puts 3.5-3.9 grains of PB for a 158gr jacketed bullet. I loaded up 3.7. checked scale regularly and dillon 550 throws very consistent charges. Constantly checking loads and no deviance.
I chronograghed a cylinder full this morning and they were very slow at around 400fps. I thought then that I need to change to a different powder since I only had .2 more to their published max load. I shot one more cylinder full out at paper and found that 3-5 of the bullets are stuck in the barrel.
Gun is on its way back to S&W for probably a new barrel.
I cannot tell you how my gut feels when I think about the day.
Any ideas why, could I not have had enough crimp? I did just move the dies from 357 mag to 38 special.
I am mad and confused. now I'm not sure I can rely on any published data. These loads seemed to shoot fine out of my 627 last week, but I didn't chrono them then, d#*@
At least nothing blew up! my next moon clip had full load of 357 mags.
Thanks for listening,

 

[Gamer]

First of all, I'm glad you are unharmed. In fact , I'd say you are pretty lucky that you didn't have a kaboom with that many rounds stuck in the barrel. How far back were your trapshooting days? I'm new to reloading but it sounds like some bad powder considering the slower speeds you recorded.

 

[arjay]

I think that powder has gone bad.Was there unburned powder in the gun?

 

[MichiganScott]

Probably a bad choice of bullet. I get 740fps with 3.6gr PB and 158gr. LSWC from a 6" revolver with over 10,000 rounds through it. The bore is very smooth.

Lead has less friction than gilding metal. All it takes is for the measure to drop a charge that is a couple of tenths light. You then shoot the gilding metal bullet in a pistol with a rough bore and the bullet sticks.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree, sounds like your powder went bad. Id it still red or did it turn rust in color? Does it smell "rotten" or like Ammonia? (bad again)

That powder is really bad if you stuck 3 bullets in the barrel and you are lucky it's really bad because if not you would have blown the gun up.

 

[SteveG48]

I wouldn't blame the loading data. With 3-5 bullets actually stuck in the barrel, something more than inaccurate data is involved. Either the powder went bad or little to no powder went into the cases. If there are any rounds left from that batch, pull the bullets and check the charge.

 

[jnyav8r]

I hear the old timers at the range say there still using powder from 20 years ago. So, in reality,how long does PROPERLY stored powder last??

 

[Dragon88]

Alliant has a jar of original Unique powder from 1899. Supposedly they test it now and then, and it still performs to spec. It's all about proper storage.

 

[dirty gary]

I loaded some 38 Spl with Bullseye that was ay least 30 yrs old, no problem. However, I loaded some 10mm with some HS-7, unknown age but not ancient. Powder looked/smelled/metered fine. 3rd rd my 1006 nearly jumped out of my hand, blew out the magazine and sent the extractor to the Bahamas. A friend with me insisted trying the ammo in his Glock despite what happened. Same story with his. All ammo and powder has been disposed of.

 

[M29since14]

...A friend with me insisted trying the ammo in his Glock despite what happened. Same story with his.

I have read a lot of "crazy gun stories" here and elsewhere, but that is some sort of record. I had to read it a couple times just to be sure I wasn't misunderstanding.

 

[Titegroups]

Reminds me of story at the LGS of a guy who brought in two 44mags both blown up, his reloads blew one gun up so he kept on firing them in the other and guess what, he found another double charge in the same batch, one of the most retarded things I've ever heard.

 

[glowe]

I just can't don't buy the bad powder claims. I have a friend that I shoot with and every time he gets a series of bad loads, he swears that grubs got in his powder. Montana should not be an adverse climate and if the powder is stored in its original container, it will be good for decades. The 110 year old Unique is stored at the factory in deionized water. The sample is dried before testing and still performs perfectly.

I would re-weigh the powder if you have loaded ammo left. PB has a burn rate right between Bullseye and Unique, so the amount of powder specified should give decent results. Are you using the same primers as the other loads that performed in your 627? Also, make sure they are set at the proper level in the primer pocket.

 

[deerhtr]

so let me get this straight you are shooting new load and all you do is chronograph with no target. interesting

 

[Rule3]

How did the chronograph register anything if no bullet left the barrel? It can't be muzzle blast if the barrel is plugged.

3 to 5 bullets out of 8 were stuck in the barrel and you did not notice something was a bit wrong?????

 

[gkitch]

Gunpowder will go bad if overly exposed to sunlight. I read a Skeeter Skelton article years ago in which he reflected on some 44 Magnum Loads that went bad, much as you described. He later realized it was because he left it in a plastic measure that had been exposed to sunlight. He confirmed the chemical reaction by telephoning his friends at Olin.

 

[cfplinker]

Sticking bullets in the barrel sounds like squib (no powder) loads. Could you have missed seeing the powder in the case as you moved it from Station 2 to Station 3 on your Dillon? If you have any cartridges left from that batch I would think seriously about pulling the bullets, checking for squibs or low charges, and then recharging them.

You said you moved the dies from 357 Magnum to 38 Special. Did you readjust the bullet seating depth and the crimping settings on the dies?

The 38 Special case is shorter than the 357 Magnum case. As a result, it may not operate the powder measure correctly or consistantly if the measure was not readjusted for the shorter case when you changed to loading the shorter cases. Again, if you have any of the 38 Specials left, pull the bullets and measure the charges.

 

[PERAZZI]

I'm confused. 3-5 stuck bullets? Individually, or one after the other?

I also have several cans of powder from the 70's, still fine. Also a 70 year old tin of Unique, still smells and looks as good the day it was made. Much better than me anyway.

 

[hawgleg]

I chronograghed a cylinder full this morning and they were very slow at around 400fps.

That might have been a good time to stop. That's way slow for a jacketed bullet.

I'm glad you're ok. I'd move on to another load with a different powder. And double check that scale, this is typical of a low charge.

 

[grnhs]

How did the chronograph register anything if no bullet left the barrel? It can't be muzzle blast if the barrel is plugged.

3 to 5 bullets out of 8 were stuck in the barrel and you did not notice something was a bit wrong?????

I chronograghed the first cylinder full, all fired.
I sand bagged the next cylinder full and no I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary since the sandbag suppressed the recoil and I was concentrating on sight alignment to see how it would print on paper.

Yes I should have stopped after the low muzzel velocity,
No the powder is not bad, only a couple of years old and stored correctly. I did find that I was not crimping and thus had loose seated bullets.
Yes I still feel like an idiot since it did happen to me and I am soley to blame.
3- 4 bullets stuck in the barrel is mind blowing to me also and am glad that I will probably only have to buy a new barrel.
I have gotten a different powder and will be checking everything after every shot for quite a while.
I'm suspecting that the PB is position sensitive also. but again, the bullets were not deep enough and were not crimped.
I have pulled all that were left and the PB goes back in the storage bin.
These bulk "Frontier" bullets are also suspect in my mind.
Until I understand fully what happened I will be a little on edge about reloads.

 

[growr]

Where in montana are you? I live in Billings and might be able to refer you to some very knowledgeable colleagues.
Randy