Sporter No 4 Mark 1

[2152hq]

There's plenty of already sporterized Military rifles around in various states of quality of work. Chose one of those if you want to go ahead and finish a sporter up on one.
Some of them are even good candidates to restore to their orig Military configuration.
It can be expensive to go in either direction, but rewarding when the finished product is in hand.

Nice looking #4 rifle.
Looks like it might have been a preturn stock from someplace like Bishop or Fajen. But who ever did the work took extra care and had the talent to finish it up very nicely.

I just finished up a sporter on a Krag someone else made probably back in the 50's or 60's using a preturned stock. Lots of terrible things they did in making it but it probably served as a great deer rifle for years.
I put much more time into it and it's sad piece of wood and orig excavation type inletting work than it probably deserved. But it was way past putting it back to Military spec.
Better than watching TV

 

[Gene L]

Sporterizing is especially hard to take when it is done to a rifle like this.

WWII Unicorn rifle

That's a nice rifle there and in great shape. Forgotten Weapons has a good video on the No 1 Mark 6. Is it marked as such on the socket? Might want to check the date on your post...looks like a typo.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

The OP has a nice rifle.
But thanks Guys! Here I am thinking about not pulling the trigger on an inexpensive sporterized 30-40 Krag. The action has always fascinated me and the cartridge is a proven deer slayer. The price is low and it comes with ammo and reloading dies.
Already have a beater Swedish Mauser that fills the roll of a bad weather rifle. It came to me as a parts gun with mismatch bolt. I lightened it up and put on better sights. Also have my granddads P17 Winchester that he trimmed down after WWII. I know that one was like new when he got it.
Come to think of it, I also have an 1873 marked trapdoor carbine that has seen some custom work by unknown persons. Oh, and wait, there's that Remington #5 Roller that yours truly had rebuilt into a 38-55 sporter. They all shoot well and fulfill their role.
I agree that knowingly taking a pristine old military rifle and reworking it these days is a fools errand. Especially when they can be sold or traded for a true sporting rifle better suited to the task. But back when they brought a few bucks, as that $11 P17 of granddads... well the Remington model 30, built on the same action, would have cost him 5 times as much. I have no problem with military sporters. Besides, they make the unaltered ones worth so much more!
Now... what to do about that $250 Krag?

John

 

[GypsmJim]

Back in the early 1970's I got a "sporterized #4 Long Branch from Woolworth's five and dime store for $19.95. The "sporterizing amounted to cutting off the stock and removing the forearm and hardware. It appeared to be an unissued gun and its not import marked.

Shortly afterwards I found a new unissued stock set at Springfield Sporters in PA for another $20 or so. It came with all the hardware as well. It was not serial numbered, but it was also a Long Branch.
That was probably my cheapest but brand new all original milsurp.

 

[LVSteve]

That's a nice rifle there and in great shape. Forgotten Weapons has a good video on the No 1 Mark 6. Is it marked as such on the socket? Might want to check the date on your post...looks like a typo.

Not sure which date you mean. Harry the Grinder at the Fazakerley obliterated the original receiver marks, sadly.

 

[Gene L]

Not sure which date you mean. Harry the Grinder at the Fazakerley obliterated the original receiver marks, sadly.

Sorry...my mistake. No problem at all. I misread.

 

[Frank46]

Well playing around with a #4MKI* with two groove barrel, made at Long Branch in 1942. Then after the war Parker Hale converted it to what they call a Parker Hale sporter. Mine is the lowest grade they made at the time. Chop the barrel,chop the forend install a sporting ramp front sight and left the military one alone.Will be giving both the forend and the rear hanguard an acetone bath tomorrow. The draws were badly cut and caused the back or the forend to crack. I'll make up a dutchman and epoxy it in place. That takes care of the crack. However the draws require some planning on my part.Going to chisel out the oil soaked wood until I get to good and one piece of walnut will take care of the draws. Have to do some creative sanding with mu little Harbor Freight sander to match the angle of the mating surfaces of the draws on the action body.Then glass that area as well.And finally glass bed the whole action body, and the first inch or so of the barrel. May put in a pressure point don't know as yet. This quarantine being in the house for 3 weeks is driving me stir crazy have to do something to keep the brain cells occupied. Frank

 

[cmansguns]

I agree that TODAY at 75 yrs old with 60 years experience added to the 15 years old when I actually purchased (from Sears - mail order) my first real "big bore" rifle, I would never consider a "sporterized" Milsurp……………..but...…….

The Sears Enfield sporters of 1960 were really nice rifles, professionally done somewhere, and in my opinion were not "bubba" homemade chop jobs.

They were $20.00 cheaper than a 1903 A3, or a Mauser. Mine was less than $40.00 and although it no longer has a "space of honor" in the safe, it still stands along side more valuable rifles with pride.

Still very accurate with Williams rear peep. and can still take whitetail where nothing under .30 cal is allowed during rifle season. The ***en Monte Carlo stock isn't any slouch either for fit and looks.

I am sure that literally thousands of these type commercial sporters were produced and I still believe that they have a place in American history among us still alive, or our fathers, uncles, etc. who just could not afford a branny new Winchester Model 70, or a Remington off the shelf.

Enjoy yours OP...…………..I still do mine (PS. at least around here 303 ammo is available and priced right).

 

[Texas Star]

I agree that TODAY at 75 yrs old with 60 years experience added to the 15 years old when I actually purchased (from Sears - mail order) my first real "big bore" rifle, I would never consider a "sporterized" Milsurp……………..but...…….

The Sears Enfield sporters of 1960 were really nice rifles, professionally done somewhere, and in my opinion were not "bubba" homemade chop jobs.

They were $20.00 cheaper than a 1903 A3, or a Mauser. Mine was less than $40.00 and although it no longer has a "space of honor" in the safe, it still stands along side more valuable rifles with pride.

Still very accurate with Williams rear peep. and can still take whitetail where nothing under .30 cal is allowed during rifle season. The ***en Monte Carlo stock isn't any slouch either for fit and looks.

I am sure that literally thousands of these type commercial sporters were produced and I still believe that they have a place in American history among us still alive, or our fathers, uncles, etc. who just could not afford a branny new Winchester Model 70, or a Remington off the shelf.

Enjoy yours OP...…………..I still do mine (PS. at least around here 303 ammo is available and priced right).

As you are presumably aware, you have a No.1 MK III sporter, not a No. 4. Actually, a prettier sporter.

Nice looking rifle.

Does VA require .30 caliber or more for deer?! That means that you could hunt with a 7.62X39 and not a .270 or 7mm. ???!!!

Good Lord, you could use a puny .30 Carbine!

 

[cmansguns]

Hello Texas Star;

I haven't hunted in years. I enjoy the venison I do receive from many friends who do hunt Virginia during Bow, Muzzleloader, and Shotgun/Rifle season. These days the State has all sorts of very confusing rules and regulation, such as: (2019-2020 Firearms regulation and ordnances)...paraphrasing and emphasis mine:

Ordnance 24: Unlawful to hunt with rifles OVER 22 cal. except groundhogs from March 1 to August 31.

Ordnance 28: No cal LARGER than 22 during deer season

Ordnance 60: It shall be LAWFUL to hunt deer and bear from a tree stand elevated 10 feet from the ground, or a 10 foot radius from a fixed point while ground hunting, with a .23 or LARGER caliber.

The above are only 3 taken out of the pages and pages which are published and on top of those there may be (probably are) numerous additional local laws and rules. Most of my friends belong to "private hunt clubs" that have permanently leased or own, several hundred acre properties.

I believe that private property is exempt from some of the rulings, as I know of nursery owners, small farmers around here can and do take crop eating deer anytime, with any caliber, but they have special permits entitling them to do so.

I have lived in States where rules were quite different but that was years ago.....I remember Ohio in the 80's where 30 cal & up was the "rule" where I lived, BUT....the catch was "straight wall cartridges only"....Anybody who had a 30-40 Krag was OK!

West of the Blue Ridge here in Virginia I had a friend who hunted with Win Model 94 in 30-30 but that was also years ago.

PS. Yep...……...I know now what my SMLE is but I sure didn't know back then. All I knew was that the GR over the crown, stood for George Rex.....aka "King George"

 

[Texas Star]

Hello Texas Star;

I haven't hunted in years. I enjoy the venison I do receive from many friends who do hunt Virginia during Bow, Muzzleloader, and Shotgun/Rifle season. These days the State has all sorts of very confusing rules and regulation, such as: (2019-2020 Firearms regulation and ordnances)...paraphrasing and emphasis mine:

Ordnance 24: Unlawful to hunt with rifles OVER 22 cal. except groundhogs from March 1 to August 31.

Ordnance 28: No cal LARGER than 22 during deer season

Ordnance 60: It shall be LAWFUL to hunt deer and bear from a tree stand elevated 10 feet from the ground, or a 10 foot radius from a fixed point while ground hunting, with a .23 or LARGER caliber.

The above are only 3 taken out of the pages and pages which are published and on top of those there may be (probably are) numerous additional local laws and rules. Most of my friends belong to "private hunt clubs" that have permanently leased or own, several hundred acre properties.

I believe that private property is exempt from some of the rulings, as I know of nursery owners, small farmers around here can and do take crop eating deer anytime, with any caliber, but they have special permits entitling them to do so.

I have lived in States where rules were quite different but that was years ago.....I remember Ohio in the 80's where 30 cal & up was the "rule" where I lived, BUT....the catch was "straight wall cartridges only"....Anybody who had a 30-40 Krag was OK!

West of the Blue Ridge here in Virginia I had a friend who hunted with Win Model 94 in 30-30 but that was also years ago.

PS. Yep...……...I know now what my SMLE is but I sure didn't know back then. All I knew was that the GR over the crown, stood for George Rex.....aka "King George"

Yes, King George V. Your rifle was made by BSA, a famous contractor that also made SMLE rifles commercially as well as nice Mauser and other sporting rifles.
I had a .30-06 built on their own Mauser-like action in the 1980's. I didn't have their BESA recoil reducing cuts near the muzzle and did kick. But was very reliable and accurate.

 

[Gene L]

Charlie, that's a good-looking SMLE. Looks like a lot of work was done to it. Is that the original barrel, refinished?

 

[cmansguns]

Hello GeneL;

As far as I know the barrel is original, cut down, very professionally recrowned and a nice ramp front sight added. There are a ton of stampings on both sides of the barrel (see poor quality pics) and numbers, fonts, etc. match the receiver.

The finish is something else, even after sessions in the wet woods and rain, regular clean and oil before putting away and I've never spotted any rust forming whatsoever.

It appears like a bright Parkerizing of some sort. Very durable.

The entire rifle is just the way it came from Sears Roebuck (by train no less) to the small farming town I turned 15 in. Mom had to pick it up and we only had one car which was with pop the day it came in. Also it came in a flimsy pasteboard box which fell apart in the very small Sears catalog counter, so Mom really was "mildly "amused" to say the least.....walking 6 blocks to our house with that rifle slung over her shoulder!

I am always amazed by the members and posters on this Forum. I know it is all about Smith & Wesson, but to so many others that enjoy the same things as I do is just a daily treat.

Keep on enjoying your milsurps...be they original, combat scarred, rebuilt, whacked on...…….they ALL have some story to tell, and I love it when people tell them.

 

[Justin T]

I have dad's deer-getter, much like the OP's. Dad used a 1943 Lithgow. Bought from K-Mart or Gibson's or some place like that. His dad used to buy them by the crate, and give them away as gifts. Dad shot a lot of deer with this gun.

Dad's was sportered by an old-time smith. Really, the only thing done was to cut down the stock and sand off the markings on the wood. The wood is reddish like old Guns from back in the day. Dad asked me not to replace the wood because the smith literally bled on it when he broke his bottle of wood stain on it. Odd, but I'll honor the request.

 

[Gene L]

Last night, I was fooling around with mine, practicing reloading, and found it won't eject loaded rounds. It will eject empties fine. Went to the web, got an immediate answer...my ejector screw is missing. Fortunately Sarco has them for $3. Ordered one last night.

 

[JayFramer]

The ruination of a fine fightsman's bolt gun.

How many military veterans have been butchered by Bubba's Dremel or the rusty hacksaw?

 

[k22fan]

When or if our local club gets another outdoor range open I plan to complete the "ruination" of a few more "fightsman's" bolt rifles. I want a bolt action in .30-40 Krag with the chamber end of it's rifling cut to my ideal for cast bullets. Also I want a .35 caliber rifle chambered for belted magnum case with the capacity of a .35 .30-06 combined with a very long neck to cover up all the grease grooves in a 320 grain bullet. It also needs my ideal lead. The big factories are never going to mass produce either of those.

Sporterizing retired "fightsman's" bolt rifles is not all about getting a less expensive hunting rifle. We can have rifles built to our unusual tastes. Also some of us prefer the feel and function of our favorite old action. My favorite happens to be the US 1917 or for rimmed or belted magnum cases the British Pattern 14 it was derived from.

 

[Gene L]

They made something like 17 million Lee Enfields, so they're not like Patterson Colts and rare. While they have some collector interest today, they didn't always. The people I know of who cut them did so when there were a lot of LE around and they didn't have much money and used them hunting guns. If I or those guys had prescience, we would have picked primo examples and stored them away unaltered and made money on them.

 

[Frank46]

I used to hunt on my Uncles dairy farm back in '67 when I got out of the navy. Most of the local hunters almost to a man carried military Surplus pr sporterized ones. I had a 1949 M70 in 30-06. It looked like a military rifle show and tell. Didn't get a deer that week but could always count on my aunt having a fresh pot of coffee on the stove. In later years I used a sporterized jungle carbine and a Ruger 77 in 308. And in the summer would go yo my uncles place and shoot ground hogs. My uncle who never hunter bought a stevens 340 in 222 rem and made a boot out of leather so he could attach it to his tractor.Frank

 

[azpolock]

Frank--The Savage was a fav of mine when a kid. Liked the looks, and cost was low enough that i could dream of having one. Finally got a pre-68 (no SN) in 30-30 w/Dockendorf sight. Your uncle's in .222 would be a great gun to play with--tho I fear years on the tractor would leave their marks!