Staked .357 Primer

[codenamedave]

I was going through some old odds & ends and found this Fed .357 Magnum FMJ round. Now just the fact that it's a .357 FMJ was weird enough, but apparently FMJ .38s and .357s are very popular these days, especially in the discount foreign makes. I would think that RNL rounds would be cheaper; maybe it's a local laws type thing, or maybe an American market indoor range thing.

Anyway what really seemed bizarre to me was the staked primer. I had thought that one would only find staked/crimped primers on militay surplus ammo. I read somewhere that was to keep the fired ones from falling out in full-auto arms and tying up the works.

Has anybody ever seen such a thing? I did a search and found that some military issue .38s came with crimped primers, but military-issue .357s seem a bit unlikely. Anybody hear of any full-auto .357s for sale?

 

[chief38]

Never saw staked .357 Primers before so this is new to me. Could have been a measure to help keep them from possibly backing out - however I've not experienced that issue either, not even with Buffalo Bore ammo. Could be just another "selling point" to one-up the competition, or maybe just an "ounce of prevention for stout loads, who knows. You could always call Federal and ask the guys in the Tech Dept.

.357 is not a normal military loading, so unless it was used by elite forces, special law enforcement groups or alike I am a bit curious myself.

 

[Nevada Ed]

A reloader's nightmare, for sure !!

Interesting.

 

[Marshal Kane]

Appears to be a steel case in the photo but that may only be due to tarnish on brass. A possible reason for the crimp is that the ammunition wasn't meant to be reloaded and the crimp put in to discourage that. I'm sure someone will know and give us the right answer. Anyway thanks for the post as I learned something new today.

 

[rwsmith]

I've seen some staked....

...but never crossed like that. You couldn't tell unless you looked close.

 

[WR Moore]

Last year I was trouble shooting an issue with Dillon. After I got my problem fixed I asked about something that'd I'd noticed in their catalog. They listed a primer swaging anvil (to hold the case) for .40 S&W for their 600 swaging tool. I was told that primer pocket staking/swaging seems to be making a comeback and they'd responded to market forces.

Possibly something with non-toxic primers?

 

[oink]

I bought some Blazer boxer primed brass loaded ammo (not aluminum) a year or three ago. When I went to reload it, it deprimed fine but wouldn't take a primer. I think I was using CCI primers at the time but could have been Winchester. I tried several but same result. I could have swaged the pockets but nah, I just haven't bought any more Blazer. They didn't looked crimped or staked. Oh well!

 

[codenamedave]

You could always call Federal and ask the guys in the Tech Dept.

Now that's an excellent idea. Think I'll email them so's I can attach the pics. I'll update with any response.

It's a brass case, it's just old. Can't remember when the last time was that I picked up random rounds laying around, the latest possible would be around 2007. Another CRS sufferer here.

A specialty primer such as lead-free requiring special treatment is certainly a possibility. Another I just thought of was maybe it was part of a run for a foreign military, that wanted to use .357s for whatever reason and stay within the rules of war by using FMJs, and also wanted the military style staked primer.

Good heads-up on the Blazer Brass, maybe the manufacturer figured that the Blazer non-reloader marketplace extended to their brass offerings as well. And it'd be good to use at the indoor ranges that require factory ammo and won't let you pick up your brass. "Fine, have fun with this stuff!"

 

[scooter123]

IMO the fact that it's FMJ, a rather rare variant for 357 Magnum, indicates that this round was intended for Military use where HP or Soft Nose bullets were once considered a violation of the Geneva Convention. That crimp simply reinforces the notion that this was at some point a Military loading, perhaps for either USAF or Army MP or Navy SP use. Based on the degree of tarnish I would guess mid 70's to mid 80's production.

 

[codenamedave]

Federal got back to me the other day about this cartridge.

I received a forwarded email from their internal system, the thread of which included my forwarded email.

From
Monica Strommen
Federal Premium Ammunition
Technical Service Representative

Doc:
Do you happen to know anything about this cartridge?
Thanks

Reply
Monica, I checked every 357 Mag package and rounds I have from 1965 to present. I could only find one such round loaded in 1978 only. Specimens from box do not have staked primer like shown in inquiry. I have neve seen such a method of staking ever on any other pistol or rifle rounds by Federal. I believe this was either done after-market or was some kind of a trial that never came to fruition. You could check with some of the 40 year old timers Like Kenny C., Mike Larson, or the guy who used to handle liability cases. Ckeck with Gary to see if he has any other ideas.
Doc F.
[errors as received]


In my reply thanking them for the info, I asked if the comment "one such round" meant that Federal did indeed load a bullet of this type, and that it looked factory. It seems highly unlikely that another commercial manufacturer would buy loaded rounds from Federal and then run them through a primer-staking process, and it certainly doesn't look like a home hobbyist job.

If anybody following is a cartridge collector or otherwise expert, would it be possible on a round this old to tell by photos whether or not it had been reloaded? I can try to get some yuge close-ups if that's the case.

The mystery deepens, stay tuned!

 

[codenamedave]

IMO the fact that it's FMJ, a rather rare variant for 357 Magnum, indicates that this round was intended for Military use where HP or Soft Nose bullets were once considered a violation of the Geneva Convention. That crimp simply reinforces the notion that this was at some point a Military loading, perhaps for either USAF or Army MP or Navy SP use. Based on the degree of tarnish I would guess mid 70's to mid 80's production.

Doc F. sez might be from 1978; good call.

 

[500SNW]

It was actually "The 1899 Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets" which prohibited their use in warfare...not the "Geneva Convention" that people routinely cite.