stand your ground/Concealed carry

[Lost Lake]

I think there are probably 1000 lawyers waiting in line to take Zimmerman's case just for the notoriety and TV time. This case will make instant celebrities of anyone. Look at all the talk shows these lawyers have been on already.

Now that the case is going to be prosecuted, someone has to come up with the money for expert witnesses and investigations. Now representing Zimmerman is going to cost a lot of money.

A rich lawyer may take it if he has the time and cash to trade for the notoriety, but remember, the defense has no idea what the prosecutor knows already. It's really a krap shoot whether to defend him or not.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

Stand your groun law

For those that are not current on the latest news, Zimmerman's attorney is Mark O'Mara. His previous attorney withdrew and said that Zimmerman seemed to be in a good state of mind but that the pressure had weighed mightly on him. Zimmerman is expected to be in court today for his first hearing and arraignment. He will probably plead not guity. Then comes the Discovery: within 15 days, prosecutors must start providing Zimmerman's attorney with "discovery" the first witness statements, police reports, and photos that will be used as evidence against him. Most of the evidence will be released to the public and media. Then the Immunity motion once all the evidence has been provided to Zimmerman's defense team, his lawyer can file a motion for immunity under Florida's "Stand your ground" law. A Judge must hold an evidentiary hearing and decide by a "preponderance of the evidnce" whether Zimmerman was acting in self- defense. If the Judge denies his motion for immunity, a date will be set for a trial in front of a jury. Zimmerman could ask for change of venue if a judge deems pre-trail publicity has been so overwhelming that it is impossible for the defendant to get a fair trial. - State Attorney Angela Corey held a press conference announcing that she had decided to by-pass the Grand Jury, and brought charges against George Zimmerman for second degree murder. State Attorney Angela Corey stated she was only interested in "justice" -- and had no bias in the case. Where have you heard of a prosecutor having a prayer vigil with the family of alleged victim in a hotly disputed case and if that dosen't tell you that this is the most biased prosecutor you will ever come across - then there is something wrong with your thinking. Regardless if innocence or guilt, It has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with politics. If the Governor had any sense of justice,(and he won't because this is a political powder ket, he would remove her immediately and assign a new prosecutor. This is a quote from Orlando attorney Joh H. Gutmacher. A person is innocense until proven guilty isn't that what the Country's constitution is based on?

Nick

 

[Chuck1217]

Heard Bloomberg runnin' his mouth this morning, about how this incident shows how crazy SYG laws were from the beginning. He said some outright misleading stuff and I guess we've come to expect that. But the 25 or 26 states that have SYG laws better have their Atty-Gen's on standby- the anti-gunners really could use this for a bigtime protest.
LostLake, I heard also this morning that the new lawyer had been on TV answering questions for the press from the get-go, so he's obviously one of the- attention-hunter lawyers in FL. I just hope he knows what he's doing.
And hobby, isn't it crazy she would actually go talk to the victim's family while assessing whether to charge or not? You are so right, she is not qualified for that job. The Const. is truly in more danger right now than ever before.

 

[to9]

You guys are right ,this is still going to be a train wreck.

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

I think everyone needs to wait and get the whole story on the Zimmerman incident before rushing to judgement. There have been a few more details leaking out over the last few days that dispute the media reports that he just killed an innocent kid in cold blood. Apparently Zimmerman had a broken nose and a laceration on back of his head. Just simply following someone that appears suspicious is not a crime, at least not in Kentucky or Florida.

Dont think he woulda called cops first if he intended on breaking the Law.

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

For those that are not current on the latest news, Zimmerman's attorney is Mark O'Mara. His previous attorney withdrew and said that Zimmerman seemed to be in a good state of mind but that the pressure had weighed mightly on him. Zimmerman is expected to be in court today for his first hearing and arraignment. He will probably plead not guity. Then comes the Discovery: within 15 days, prosecutors must start providing Zimmerman's attorney with "discovery" the first witness statements, police reports, and photos that will be used as evidence against him. Most of the evidence will be released to the public and media. Then the Immunity motion once all the evidence has been provided to Zimmerman's defense team, his lawyer can file a motion for immunity under Florida's "Stand your ground" law. A Judge must hold an evidentiary hearing and decide by a "preponderance of the evidnce" whether Zimmerman was acting in self- defense. If the Judge denies his motion for immunity, a date will be set for a trial in front of a jury. Zimmerman could ask for change of venue if a judge deems pre-trail publicity has been so overwhelming that it is impossible for the defendant to get a fair trial. - State Attorney Angela Corey held a press conference announcing that she had decided to by-pass the Grand Jury, and brought charges against George Zimmerman for second degree murder. State Attorney Angela Corey stated she was only interested in "justice" -- and had no bias in the case. Where have you heard of a prosecutor having a prayer vigil with the family of alleged victim in a hotly disputed case and if that dosen't tell you that this is the most biased prosecutor you will ever come across - then there is something wrong with your thinking. Regardless if innocence or guilt, It has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with politics. If the Governor had any sense of justice,(and he won't because this is a political powder ket, he would remove her immediately and assign a new prosecutor. This is a quote from Orlando attorney Joh H. Gutmacher. A person is innocense until proven guilty isn't that what the Country's constitution is based on?

Nick

Her press conference was Biased for sure.

 

[venomballistics]

Dont think he woulda called cops first if he intended on breaking the Law.

you sure about that? Confer with "Oldman45 and Charlie Sherril" Both can give you first hand accounts about the infinite nature of human stupidity

 

[amazingflapjack]

Hopefully I won't be in a deadly force situation, but if I am, whatever the laws are that are in force wherever it happens, won't change the situation into something other than a deadly force confrontation. If I am where I am lawfully allowed to be, conducting myself the way I should, and someone makes it clear to me that they intend to do me or mine harm, or my property in some cases, I do not care what the law is, I am going to do my very best to defend myself and others from violent assault. When my wife and I made the decision to carry full time, we asked the Lord that, if it were possible, that we would never have to use these weapons against another human being, but that, if we did, that He would power us to use them effectively. There can be a big difference between what the law says, and my doing the right, moral thing. There are a lot of ways to defuse and avoid negative outcomes in disputes of different kinds; in some cases you can just walk or run away, but an "attack" is another thing all together. hope everyone has the opportunity to reconcile this kind of thought, putting it in its proper prospective. Flapjack.

 

[s2harry]

I believe Zimmerman was too enthusiastic. There is a very real chance that when you get involved in apprehending someone as a private citizen it will escalate. Things can go wrong and you put yourself in a bad situation. Now what do you do? He was trying to help the community very commendable, he cared good for him. Now a zealous DA that promised Travons "sweet parents" (what the h?) to find the truth, is coming after him. The lying rat news media Spike Lee and the Panther Piss Party leadership should be prosecuted for inciting riot and conspiring murder. If the DA was worth a dam she would do just that. Does she NO.

 

[Hondo44]

This could be as open-and-shut of a case as the police originally ruled:

Zimmerman's father states as told to him, Z watched him from the truck, got out of the truck and followed Martin to where he went out of sight, Z looked for the closest house # to give the location to police on his cell phone. Martin comes up on Z's blind side, confronts Z and speaks the first words: "You got a problem?" Z: "No". M: "Now you do!". M busts Z in the nose and Z goes down. Z yells "Help, help....".

Witness hears the cries for help but doesn't know who is yelling. A different witness appears and observes M is on top of Z banging his head on the concrete. There's a shot. Attack is over.

Prosecutor denies a Grand Jury hearing and charges Z with 2nd degree murder (not pre meditated or in the heat of passion, just murder with mayhem, a killing caused by dangerous conduct); tough to prove if judge finds Z's story to be accurate. Z's lawyer is working 'pro bono' (for free). 'Stand Your Ground' law may not even be relevant.

Case will be heard by a judge at a hearing with no jury present. Judge will make a judgement of guilt or innocence of 2nd degree murder, or not make a judgement and send the case to a jury. If judgement is made by the judge at the hearing, the case is over. The judge may not be able to charge Z with a lower crime such as involuntary or voluntary manslaughter because the prosecutor did not charge him with that, only murder in the 2nd.

 

[williamlayton]

Get out the slap jacks boys cause I am going to ruin somebodys day.
I am so tired of reading about this perfect storm I could scream---so I guess I will scream.
Zimmerman caused all of this to come to a head.
IF Z had used one ounce of brain matter this would not have happened.
NOW---Z's life is ended for the rest of his life.
Let this be a wake-up call for the rest of you---just because you carry a gun does not mean that you can push someone else around. He id and the other feller pushed back and now someone is dead and the other man is walking around dead.
Blessings

 

[badge]

This topic is sadly over thought. You dont ever want or desire to take a life. It is a terrible, life changing event that should be avoided at all costs. Trust me. That said, words to live by, " mind your business ", and try and avoid conflict at all costs. When that fails you either become a victim or you defend yourself from an aggressor. Know the law as best as a layman can and you WILL know when your life is in danger and at that moment you choose your path.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

stand your ground law

I guess you are a witness of what happened which led up to the confrontation. As I stated earlier, I was not there and cannot assess my opinion as to what happened. If you are a witness, please come forward and avail yourself to the prosecutor or the defense attorney. Otherwise, you cannot judge who was at fault. It is up to the judge to decide if Zimmmerman is innocent or must proceed to a jury. I would agree with you, there is too much hype with the media and it is turning out to be a political mess.

Nick

 

[M29since14]

This topic is sadly over thought...

Amen. Stop there.

 

[bubbiesdad]

This probably will be unpopular but what else is new, at least for me? Discounting a home invasion, I believe that no matter what the local laws are everyone has a moral duty to retreat if one can do so safely. I like CMORT666 will not be bullied but neither will I do something rash or stupid.
Understand that the taking of a life, no matter how legal or moral your actions were is a life changing event, and it’s not a positive event. I’m finally at the point in my life were I’ve been able to accumulate a few things and I’m not willing to be forced to giving these to someone’s relatives or a good criminal/civil defense attorney.

What is a "reasonable" definition of being safely able to retreat?
While retreating one could easily be attacked from behind.

 

[itslucky]

“Anyone with any brains left would have to assume that if he lost consciousness, then the guy who was beating his head against the concrete would be more than happy to finish him off with the gun after he lost consciousness. There is also evidence that Mr. Martin had told Zimmerman that he was going to “die tonight”.

And this is exactly the argument the defense attorney should introduce.

“Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, my client, under Florida Statutory law, had every right to carry a firearm, was carrying it in accordance with law, and because of the vicious assault by the decedant Trayvon Martin, my client was losing consciousness. My client was very congnizant that if he lost consciousness, he was armed with a firearm and would be at the COMPLETE MERCY OF HIS ASSAILANT. He had no choice but to save his own life. Yes, he shot Trayvon Martin, not to take his life, but to stop Trayvons violent and FELONIOUS assault against him. Remember, he only fired once, and had the opportunity to fire multiple times, which would have almost certainly ensured the death of Martin, but he only fired ONCE. Martin died as a tragic, but unintended result of being shot ONCE and as a result of my client trying to save his own life.”

 

[McBear]

I guess you are a witness of what happened which led up to the confrontation. As I stated earlier, I was not there and cannot assess my opinion as to what happened. If you are a witness, please come forward and avail yourself to the prosecutor or the defense attorney. Otherwise, you cannot judge who was at fault. It is up to the judge to decide if Zimmmerman is innocent or must proceed to a jury. I would agree with you, there is too much hype with the media and it is turning out to be a political mess.

Nick

WE only have Zimmerman's unedited words on the 911 call and his ignoring the 911 dispatcher's advice of "we don't need you to do that" when told by Zimmerman that he was following.

The most interesting two parts of this case, to me are that folks on one side seem to be defending "stand your ground" more than Zimmerman and that they are more than willing to attack the Prosecutor, an extremely strong anti crime Republican just because she has taken a position in opposition to those who are defending "stand your ground" without a whole lot of facts to back it up.

Now it is up to the courts and a jury to decide. They get to hear the coroners report in detail, get to hear the dispatcher's 911 call again and again, get to hear testimony from the cops and EMTs about any injuries and about defensive wounds on either person. All information that none of us [with our GEDs in Law from Internet U] have been privy to.

Though I fear, deeply fear that we will hear it all in excruciating detail from Nancy Grace should we wander by while channel surfing.

 

[feralmerril]

When you meddle with someone you think doing something suspicious and dont have a badge or uniform on, you just arent going to be taken as serious. Trayvor obvisely thought zimmerman unarmed. There is a parable in the bible that says "Grab a mad dog by the ears and you will get bit!" Both zimmerman martin should have read that. The real fall out on this one isnt going to be so much about the danger of getting the gun laws changed, (thats always a on going perpetual given) but this has all the past earmarks of the usual fodder for adjitators like sharpton, jackson and the black panthers to try and fan riots and a race war. I was there when watts fired up in 65, again in 66 with the leonard deadwyler incident, and again in the 1991 rodney king sparked incidents. This is the same and the usual suspects are trying to fan it just like they did in the other riots. These men and the black panthers hope, hunt and wait for such excuses.

 

[Hondo44]

I guess you are a witness of what happened which led up to the confrontation. As I stated earlier, I was not there and cannot assess my opinion as to what happened. If you are a witness, please come forward and avail yourself to the prosecutor or the defense attorney. Otherwise, you cannot judge who was at fault. It is up to the judge to decide if Zimmmerman is innocent or must proceed to a jury. I would agree with you, there is too much hype with the media and it is turning out to be a political mess.

Nick

Nick, I agree. Some have Zimmmerman lynched already.

 

[TAKJR]

It all boils down to the words listed below:

"You don't need to do that!"

He could be at home drinking a beer, had he heeded those words....

TAKJR